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AngryZealot
AngryZealot
Join Date 04/2008
+23

2v2 = stalemate

March 23, 2009 10:30:04 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

As the balance currently stands, a 2v2 that progresses to the end game takes far too long to complete. With the sheer amount of damage reduction and health regeneration possible, and only two demigods to burst with, no one can die. All you can do is hunker down until you own every single artifact. Something needs to change.

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AngryZealot
strikersgun
Join Date 07/2004
+2
Reply #1 March 23, 2009 11:10:53 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

that just means u have 4 really good players

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AngryZealot
strikersgun
Join Date 07/2004
+2
Reply #2 March 23, 2009 11:11:08 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

that just means u have 4 really good players

 

lol double post

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AngryZealot
PossiblyImpossible
Join Date 08/2008
+1
Reply #3 March 24, 2009 12:31:54 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Hrm.  Interesting point.  It seems like this would only be a problem on a large map, though. 

What are your ideas for ways to make stalemates less of a problem?  I've had games that last a long time because it's very close, but I'm not sure how that can really be helped balance wise....if players are close in skill, the game is naturally going to last a lot longer.

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AngryZealot
Micah
Join Date 02/2008
+6
Reply #4 March 24, 2009 12:35:32 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Sounds to me like an even match, not a balance issue.  If both teams are stacking armor/health/regen your best bet is to focus on the push.

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AngryZealot
FalseMyrmidon
Join Date 01/2008
0
Reply #5 March 24, 2009 1:45:24 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting PossiblyImpossible,
reply 3
Hrm.  Interesting point.  It seems like this would only be a problem on a large map, though. 

What are your ideas for ways to make stalemates less of a problem?  I've had games that last a long time because it's very close, but I'm not sure how that can really be helped balance wise....if players are close in skill, the game is naturally going to last a lot longer.
Part of the problem stems from the fact the match occured on is horribly balanced (Crucible, the lava one).  Only one lane and having the healing crystal closer to the fortress than on any other map can really stretch the map out.  And that's to say nothing of the fact that getting Trebuchets on your Forts kills the other teams first line of towers in about 2 minutes.

 

And no, it wasn't evenly matched.  We were losing from pretty early on in the match (about 20 minute in it was over) but it stretched out to over 2 hours before the other team won.

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AngryZealot
PossiblyImpossible
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #6 March 24, 2009 2:40:38 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Ahh okay.  Well that's a map issue then.  And yes, I've noticed some issues with Crucible besides this one.  Seems like a tough one to balance.

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AngryZealot
innociv
Join Date 02/2008
+34
Reply #7 March 24, 2009 2:47:29 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Micah,
reply 4
Sounds to me like an even match, not a balance issue.  If both teams are stacking armor/health/regen your best bet is to focus on the push.

No it's a balance issue.  Life leach is overpowered right now.  At level 20 with artifact items you can tank the damage from 2 people with life leach and damage reduction.

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AngryZealot
Gabberkooij
Join Date 09/2003
+11
Reply #8 March 24, 2009 3:49:06 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

If the life leach is that big, why not destroy the enemy citadel? This sounds if the game became cat+mouse.

With the current war ranking and citadel upgrades the game is almost certain over when Giants are entering the game. I really can not understand why a game would last 2 hours.

And if this is a balance problem then come here with numbers. Now you are just telling the balance needs to be changed and not how the numbers are causing problems will do no good. In this case:

HP of the used demigods + HP regenerations numbers

Damage done by the DM's

And yes if it turns out damage/s < hp/s then there could be a balance problem.

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AngryZealot
Ke5trel
Join Date 02/2008
+118
Reply #9 March 24, 2009 11:26:13 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

This is most likely a map issue.  Did you find you were going back and forth at the goldmine line of towers?  Yah, all they need to do to break the deadlock there is move two of those towers a little bit so all four can't focus fire.  You can draw out a losing game on Crucible for an hour, no problem, unless your opponents are good backdoor cappers.   

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AngryZealot
FalseMyrmidon
Join Date 01/2008
0
Reply #10 March 24, 2009 12:42:44 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

We both had Giants for well over half the game (probably at about 30-40 minutes in).  It's not the issue that we lost it's more that we were able to draw it out so ridiculously long.  Too bad there's no replays or I'd post one.

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AngryZealot
AngryZealot
Join Date 04/2008
+23
Reply #11 March 24, 2009 4:12:42 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Even if you can ignore the enemy and go right for the citadel, should that be possible in the first place? Should it get to the point where you simply can't do enough damage to kill someone? I don't think so.

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AngryZealot
Ke5trel
Join Date 02/2008
+118
Reply #12 March 24, 2009 4:25:54 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Should it get to the point where you simply can't do enough damage to kill someone? I don't think so.

It only happens on Crucible.  It's why I only see 1 v 1 or Pantheon games on that map.  

And yah, stealth captures are fair in war.

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AngryZealot
AngryZealot
Join Date 04/2008
+23
Reply #13 March 25, 2009 9:24:47 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

It doesn't just happen on Crucible.

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AngryZealot
Blitz64
Join Date 09/2008
+17
Reply #14 March 25, 2009 10:38:01 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I had long matches on Crucible as well.  It's the map I hate the most and I understand why it would take 1+ hour.  Buying teleport scrolls and warpstone is a must on this map.

 

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AngryZealot
Micah
Join Date 02/2008
+6
Reply #15 March 25, 2009 10:49:33 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

The best strategy I can think of to beat a stalemate on Crucible is to have both people buy a warpstone or the warp cloak and simultaneously warp in the back door.  If both of them teleport back to block you (and they are fast enough to do it before you flip the flag to at least neutral) then you can teleport back to the front and push (their teleport will be on cooldown which means you can push in a bit while they run back).

Alternatively, if they don't react fast enough or only one of them teleports back you should be able to at least turn the flag neutral.  If what you are saying is true and neither you nor them are able to kill each other then it's just a matter of standing on the flag (which forces them to also stand on the flag) and waiting while your creeps push through the rest of the map.  If either of them leaves to stop your creeps then you'll win the flag in the base.  If they both stay there and sit on the flag with you then your creeps push in and destroy the citadel.

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AngryZealot
DalzK
Join Date 09/2008
+26
Reply #16 March 25, 2009 11:03:39 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

The only time ive found stalemates to occur frequently is on Crucible. Its basically just one lane with lots of towers...hard to push and break through.

On top of that, the map is pretty long despite it having only one lane.

Never had frequent stalemates with 2v2 though on other maps.

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AngryZealot
AngryZealot
Join Date 04/2008
+23
Reply #17 March 25, 2009 7:42:29 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Again, I think people are missing the point. I know about backdoor teleporting on Crucible. The point is that the game gets to a point where it's physically impossible to kill someone because the enemy regenerates faster than you do damage. I don't think that should be possible.

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AngryZealot
Micah
Join Date 02/2008
+6
Reply #18 March 25, 2009 10:01:15 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Again, I think people are missing the point. I know about backdoor teleporting on Crucible. The point is that the game gets to a point where it's physically impossible to kill someone because the enemy regenerates faster than you do damage. I don't think that should be possible.

I think it's acceptable for this to be possible in all game types except for slaughter.  In slaughter it will cause big problems but in the rest it just changes how you play the game (strategicly).

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