gGor

Join Date 04/2009

Constant 'stuttering' within game.

I have no problems connecting to games, however when I play Demigod online, I get constant small lag spikes. Every few seconds, the game stutters. It is incredibly annoying, and makes the game unplayable.

If I look at the score screen in game, everyones Sim Speed and Ping can be OK, however I still receive these 'stutters'. It doesn't just affect me, it affects everyone in the game. Also, if I leave the game, the problem goes away (for those left in the game). I have had a friend confirm this.

There is also no increase in my ping when the 'stutters' occur.

I receive the same problem while playing on Gameranger, so it must be something on my end.

I have ports 6073, 6100-6200 open on my WGR614v9 router and I have confirmed they are open with PFPortforward.

The latest firmware is installed.

I have tried turning on or off the "Disable SPI Firewall","Respond to ping on internet port", and "Disable SIP ALG" options in my router's WAN setup page. No improvement.

I have NAT filtering set to 'open'.

I have run the ImpulseReactorOptions.exe and changed the ports, no improvement.

I have tried turning off Windows Firewall, and NOD32 (my antivirus), no improvement.

I'm running out of ideas

Can anyone help me?

Thanks in advance.

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+222

What are your system specs? If you don't mind my asking....

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I have the exact same issue and it only started after the last patch. For me, 3v3 games are usually fine. Anything above that is when I get what are frankly unexplainable spikes. Sometimes I see my ping numbers spiking, sometimes they don't but the game still hitches. My ports and router are all configured correctly, I have absolutely no problem connecting to anyone, get low ping and my system destroys this game on High at 1920x1080.

It's seriously annoying me.

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Its a specific and reproducable error with connections that use Peer 2 Peer technology in games.

Situation is as follows....

Game Loads (all fine).
Join the Room with other players (all fine).
Game Begins (consistent packet loss and ping spikes).
Quit Game (connection fine again).

This picture illustrates what i mean....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Rechar/gameerror.jpg

As you can see, either side of the "spikes" (before the game loads and after i quit), the connection is completely fine, which indicates the game is doing something that isn't nice. I have the sneaking suspicion that my ISP (and possibly yours) are somehow confusing our spam of TCP packets to multiple users as a DoS attack and blocking it. Ironically the results are almost identical to when i boot up Bitcomet and begin searching for users, whats identical between those two actions? If someone knows it could help me corner my ISP on the issue.

Unfortunately i've tried on multiple occasions to get some definitive answer on how the game communicates so i can try to explain things better to my ISP and get a definate answer on this, but without the info thats hard.

A proxy system -might- eliviate this problem (all the packets should get send to a single host rather than multiple), but don't hold high hopes for it.

For the record, my ISP is Virgin Media.(10mb connection).

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Quoting the_Monk,

reply 1

What are your system specs? If you don't mind my asking....

Intel Core2Duo E8400 @ 3.79Ghz, 4GB RAM, Geforce 512Mb 8800GTX,
Windows Vista Home Premium x64.

I think the above is good enough to run the game fine, also the problem doesn't occur in Single Player mode, so I think we can rule out my graphics/sound performance.

For the record, my ISP is Virgin Media.(10mb connection).

My ISP is also Virgin Media (10mb connection), I'm situated in
Edinburgh, Scotland.

I have the exact same issue and it only started after the last
patch.

I'm not 100% sure but it seemed to work fine before the .105 patch.

@XSIVE_DEATH: I'll try running that program later (pingplotter I
believe?) and I'll post my results here. By the way, are you using the
router Virgin gave you with their branded firmware? I managed to
update the firmware on the router they gave me to the latest Netgear
firmware.

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+222

gGor,

I have a machine here that is the same as yours with the exception of the video card (mine's an ATI Radeon) and the system runs DG without a single hitch.

I've read a few posts now with what seem to be nVidia 8800 series users having your type of issue? Could be a driver/card issue we're looking at here?

Just supposing....

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I have an nvidia 8800 GT card and I have been experiencing the same "stutter" issue in pantheon games since the most recent patch.

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On Dawn of War 2 (another p2p game), a lot people with this exact same problem are also...dun dun DUN! Virgin Media customers. I'm using the Standard Ambit Modem, no router.

I've done all i can from my end with monitoring the connection...Virgin profess they don't use any sort of NAT/TCP filtering, but i've no way to verify that. I'll be crossing my fingers that its a problem specifically with Demigod (thus fixable), because if it is the ISP at fault...its a refund time as i doubt Virgin will do anything about it.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Question: Do you have Google Desktop installed?

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I've read a few posts now with what seem to be nVidia 8800 series users having your type of issue? Could be a driver/card issue we're looking at here?

Maybe a driver. I'm running the game fine on an 8800GT.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 8

Question: Do you have Google Desktop installed?

Off chance that was aimed at myself, No.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 8

Question: Do you have Google Desktop installed?

No, I don't have Google Desktop installed.

Quoting the_Monk,

reply 5

gGor,

I have a machine here that is the same as yours with the exception of the video card (mine's an ATI Radeon) and the system runs DG without a single hitch.

I've read a few posts now with what seem to be nVidia 8800 series users having your type of issue? Could be a driver/card issue we're looking at here?

Just supposing....

Considering the game runs fine on Single Player mode, I doubt that is the problem.

Everything seems to point to my ISP being the problem. However, I'm fairly sure the game worked fine (no stuttering at least) before the latest patch, which is a tad strange.

I ran PingPlotter while I played a game, the results are below.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7214/wwwgooglecom.png

There seems to be a lot of packet loss, but I'm not really sure what would be normal. I started the game at 2001 and played for roughly 30mins. You can see I ran the program for about 30mins before I started the game.

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Must say there doesn't appear to be anything strange there, obviously its hard to tell because you where having packet loss issues before and after the game which makes it harder to examine. Did you have any "stuttering" during that game? (what was the game size, number of players etc).

If you did, right click the chart at the bottom, set it to the lowest time interval and scroll to when you started the game. Try double clicking on the graph whenever you see the red bars. If there are just sporadic packet losses shown on the hops, then you're fine. But if its basically a blanket from hop 1 to the end, thats a tell tale sign.

Alternatively...if you save the sample set feel free to email it to me, i'll take a look over in detail.

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Well this problem has progressed to the point that the game is completely unplayable for me. Even in 3v3 games, I get constant spikes every 10 seconds or so. My ping will jump up 200-300 points to everyone for a split second. I have a Radeon 4870 and my ISP is Comcast.

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Are you all using Vista and a wireless connection? There's a known issue where Vista polls for new wireless networks at a certain interval causing lag spikes in online games. There's a little app called Vista Anti Lag that corrects the issue while it's running. It's free, might be worth a whirl... http://vista-anti-lag.software.informer.com/

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Quoting mcbond,

reply 14

Hisss! Boo! Devil software Vista!

XP Sp2 here.

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Hey SkepticalMind, I think I played with you.

To everyone who's having this problem, Start -> Run -> cmd

Type/Paste (right click -> paste) this in: tracert 84.110.56.79 > c:\tracert.txt

Important: Wait until the command prompt becomes active again (until you are able to type)

Now open c:\tracert.txt in Notepad and paste it here. Also include the following information in your post: OS, ISP, location (country & city (if not living in a city, specify the city you are closest to)) and whether you are using wireless.

Do the same with ping -n 10 84.110.56.79 > c:\ping.txt and c:\ping.txt

The IP specified is my current IP.

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Won't accomplish much i'm afraid, during normal (non-gaming) ping/tracert's will return standard results. During the spikes they will return nothing (or fails) for the first 2 hops maybe 3 before the connection stabilizes again and the rest will appear normal. It happens so quickly that they arn't capable of giving a proper readout.

Luckily pingplotter can overcome that with constant pings/tracerts (which is pretty much all it is, just graphical). These are the last 4 traces done (first before, 2 during, 1 after...so a period of 8 seconds in total).

Target Name: www.google.co.uk
IP: 209.85.227.147
Date/Time: 01/05/2009 08:50:56

1    6 ms   *       *      189 ms [10.101.80.1]
2   36 ms   *       *      149 ms oldh-cam-1b-v137.network.virginmedia.net [80.5.165.237]
3   14 ms   *     1200 ms 108 ms oldh-cam-1a-v99.network.virginmedia.net [80.5.165.9]
4   23 ms 1421 ms 1148 ms   68 ms manc-t3core-1a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.175.65]
5   19 ms   *       *       28 ms man-bb-a-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.175.1]
6   12 ms   *       *        7 ms man-bb-b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.187.178]
7   14 ms 1451 ms   *       24 ms tele-ic-3-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [212.43.163.70]
8   13 ms   *       *       13 ms 158-14-250-212.static.virginmedia.com [212.250.14.158]
9   15 ms   *     1077 ms   14 ms [209.85.255.175]
10   23 ms   *     1075 ms   20 ms [66.249.95.170]
11   22 ms   *     1031 ms N/A     [72.14.236.191]
12 N/A    1243 ms 1043 ms   27 ms [209.85.243.93]
13   39 ms   *      991 ms   20 ms wy-in-f147.google.com [209.85.227.147]

Ping statistics for www.google.co.uk
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25.0%)
Round Trip Times: Minimum = 20ms, Maximum = 991ms, Average = 350ms

The OS can vary, as can ISP and Location as does Wireless. The only constant variable is the p2p system itself.

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I have the same stuttering issue. The problem for me didn't start with any patch as far as I know. It's always been there from day 1.

My system has good specs and I can run the game with maxed-out graphics at full speed in single player.

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Well, for one, you have tons of packet loss... and uh, can't you run the tracert and ping to the IP I gave you instead of Google? It has a purpose, you know.

The OS can vary, as can ISP and Location as does Wireless. The only constant variable is the p2p system itself.

Well, your tracert and ping to google shows that the problem is not the p2p system... it's your packet loss. Again, wireless?

You come here and ask for help, then refuse to get it. If you know what to do and what the cause is, why don't you fix it? Answer the questions I asked, do what I asked.

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Are you braindead? I clearly stated prior to the spiking, the connection is perfect, low ping, zero packet loss. The packet loss is a RESULT of the upload saturation (signal cannot get through, thus signal cannot get back, thus packet loss). The error occurs for approximately 4 seconds....too short a time to run either ping or tracert through the command prompt and gain any useful results.

Go and watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARIdeu5tK-0

Just for you.....

Target Name: bzq-84-110-56-79.red.bezeqint.net
IP: 84.110.56.79
Date/Time: 01/05/2009 15:09:30 to 01/05/2009 15:09:48

1   10 ms   24 ms   36 ms   16 ms   17 ms    6 ms    5 ms   27 ms    9 ms    5 ms [10.101.80.1]
2    6 ms   27 ms    7 ms   49 ms   10 ms   16 ms   18 ms    9 ms    9 ms   23 ms oldh-cam-1a-v137.network.virginmedia.net [80.5.165.169]
3    7 ms   21 ms    7 ms   14 ms   13 ms    7 ms    8 ms   26 ms   24 ms   22 ms manc-t3core-1a-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.180.37]
4   23 ms   26 ms   25 ms    8 ms   26 ms   24 ms   27 ms    6 ms   24 ms    6 ms man-bb-a-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.175.1]
5   14 ms   13 ms   14 ms   14 ms   13 ms   22 ms   32 ms   14 ms   37 ms   51 ms gfd-bb-b-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.175.146]
6   16 ms   19 ms   16 ms   32 ms   15 ms   15 ms   14 ms   16 ms   15 ms   17 ms redb-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.185.78]
7   32 ms   56 ms   25 ms   15 ms   16 ms   16 ms   22 ms   14 ms   17 ms   15 ms linx1.bezeqint.co.il [195.66.225.44]
8 102 ms   98 ms 107 ms 106 ms 102 ms 107 ms   92 ms 128 ms   99 ms   97 ms bzq-219-189-21.cablep.bezeqint.net [62.219.189.21]
9   91 ms   94 ms 157 ms   91 ms 127 ms   93 ms   94 ms 130 ms   93 ms 145 ms bzq-219-189-161.cablep.bezeqint.net [62.219.189.161]
10   94 ms   98 ms N/A      94 ms   94 ms N/A      93 ms   93 ms N/A      94 ms bzq-219-189-134.cablep.bezeqint.net [62.219.189.134]
11   98 ms   95 ms N/A      95 ms N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A      96 ms bzq-117-236-181.static.bezeqint.net [192.117.236.181]

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You said that, yes, but you weren't clear. It seemed that you were just keen on blaming the game. Since you provided a tracert to Google afterwards, it seemed that despite what you just said, you ARE having trouble unrelated to the game.

Anyway, how much upload do you have?

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40KB/s.

I've discovered the problem, my ISP (Thats virgin media remember) seems to block all TCP traffic that isn't over port 80.

www.pingplotter.com <---tracert/ping network monitoring tool.

Search for WinPcap, a something or other thats required to run traceroutes using TCP rather than ICMP or UDP.

Run a trace to google using TCP packets, result returns fine.

Change the port to anything other than port 80....destination host unreachable -however- the first few hops (on the above example, internally to virgin so Hop 6) all return fine, its only once they go to the outside that it drops out. Either way my ISP is at fault. Pretty sure this is the cause of all the issues.

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Update time...

I have advanced in my network troubleshooting level (believe i am at GODLIKE now ), using Wireshark to packetsniff all traffic. Only problem is i don't know what any of this means :/

Anyone with prior network brain experience care to look it over?

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Congratulations on your ascension to GODLIKE status XSive_Death

I just played a game, it stuttered a fair bit and here is the PingPlotter log. I shall also email you a copy of the sample set as you requested before.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7214/wwwgooglecom.png

This was recorded while doing a 2v2 custom game on the Prison map.

I have also run the tracert and ping commands that comanoodle mentioned:

Tracing route to bzq-84-110-56-79.red.bezeqint.net [84.110.56.79]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms 192.168.1.1

2     *       55 ms    52 ms 10.125.128.1

3    36 ms    29 ms    34 ms osr01edin-v15.network.virginmedia.net [80.195.0.5]

4     *       52 ms    54 ms man-bb-a-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.178.90]

5    59 ms    83 ms     *     gfd-bb-b-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.175.146]

6    56 ms     *       74 ms redb-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.185.78]

7    69 ms    72 ms    68 ms linx1.bezeqint.co.il [195.66.225.44]

8   141 ms   127 ms   139 ms bzq-219-189-21.cablep.bezeqint.net [62.219.189.21]

9   139 ms   160 ms   142 ms bzq-219-189-161.cablep.bezeqint.net [62.219.189.161]

10   142 ms   130 ms   124 ms bzq-219-189-134.cablep.bezeqint.net [62.219.189.134]

11   159 ms   143 ms   147 ms bzq-117-236-181.static.bezeqint.net [192.117.236.181]

12     *      165 ms   146 ms bzq-84-110-56-79.red.bezeqint.net [84.110.56.79]

Trace complete.

Pinging 84.110.56.79 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=155ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=150ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=141ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=130ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=157ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=148ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=128ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=142ms TTL=244

Reply from 84.110.56.79: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=244

Ping statistics for 84.110.56.79:

Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

Minimum = 128ms, Maximum = 158ms, Average = 146ms

Looks pretty normal to me, I still have the stuttering problem though.

Oh I also tried using that Vista Anti Lag tool, however it made no difference whatsoever.

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OK, I enabled all of the logging information on my router and cleared the log. Then I played a game of Demigod, which was spike-tastic as usual. Quit out of the game and checked my log, this is what I get:

"Drop ICMP packet from WAN

Source:xx.xxx.xxx.x:3

Destination:My IP:3

Rule: default deny"

These come up literally every 2-4 seconds for the entire duration I was playing and stop at the exact time I quit the game. The source IP varies. Now I know a :3 with ICMP stuff is "Destination Unreachable", I just don't know what is causing this. My router is totally configured and open for this game and runs any other online game fine, even other P2P games like Dawn of War II.

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