Scytale

Join Date 06/2006

How do I fight Sedna as TB?

So I've played a few matches against Sednas that seem nearly unkillable, where I can dump an entire mana pool of ~4000 damage into her and she chases me off with full health. I don't know exactly what skill/item build they use, but the last one didn't take Pounce at all and could resummon her Bishops every time I killed them (this was around level 13-15). This was a conquest match on Leviathan; at the end she just sat on my Citadel and chased me back to my crystal repeatedly while she remained at full health and never had to retreat. I was 2 levels higher than her and stacked health gear. I'm pretty sure I'm not a noob here, although I could be missing something, so what could I have done to stop her?

I've seen very few threads on this board regarding Sedna, so I'd love to see this turn into a "how do you play Sedna" thread if someone wants to!

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1vs1?

Roll over and die... seriously.

Or you can avoid her and cap lock all the flag and wait for your reinforcement to become strong as sedna is horrible against large amount of creeps.

Basically you don't fight her, you out smart her.

Against low armor assassins (TB is the king of low armor), minions are highly effective against them.

Any general who don't take minion against assassin on 1v1 is forfeiting his/her birth right.

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Well it wasn't exactly 1v1, there was a QoT on my team that basicly fed Sedna the whole match. That didn't exactly help. But even at level 2-3 she easily fought me off, think she stocked up on Healing potions off the start. I was making good progress against Rook and taking down towers whenever Sedna wasn't around, but once she made it to the Citadel it was pretty much game over.

So if I want to try Sedna in the next Pantheon, what do I take? She had heal as the first skill choice, and probably Priests. Then stack HP/regen gear?

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Ice TB is a great counter to Sedna when your teammates are around. Slow aura to prevent her from escaping, stun to keep her from using abilities, and, importantly, Biting Chill at level 15 to really mess with her regen rate. I've been quite surprised at how few people try it. It works great.

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Biting chill would have definately helped, I think I may have just picked that up before the round ended. I grabbed Fire and Ice at 15, think I took Chill at 16. I play Ice TB with only Fireball from the fire skills. With +5k HP though there wasn't really a way to keep her locked down long enough. I think I'll just sit back nice and snug in the knowledge that I out favoured her even with the loss, and blame it on my teammate until the next time I get trounced (then I'll need a new excuse).

Thanks for the feedback though, just wish I didn't have to back off everytime she showed up at a flag. T_T

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yea, Kitkun is exactly right.

you need a team-mate but Deep Freeze her heal while your team-mate wails away on her works every time.

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This is how you beat sedna.

Out farm her, out level her, and make her fight you at the towers. AS TB you never need to fight her on her terms, you can farm from afar with rain of ice, and you can beat her behind a tower if you do it right. Furthermore you can kill her tower out of her melee range, while she's helpless to kill your towers.

When you do fight her, getting deep freeze up to a respectable level to increase her heal cooldown or actually interrupt it are great too.

Basically if you aren't 3-4 levels above sedna when you start trying to gank her, somethings wrong with how you play TB.

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Like masterofping said, you should be able to easily out-level Sedna. Sedna has one of the most difficult times leveling of all characters due to a lack of AoE, and TB has the easiest time leveling due to huge amounts of AoE.

Personally, I would use fire TB. I'm not much of a fan of Ice. Any time I see her, I'd just harass her from a distance. It's true that she can heal herself, but her heals use up a lot more mana than my fireballs, and I bet I could send her back to her crystal very often, which is good enough for me to maintain control of the map and get a big level advantage. Because of my range, I think she should have a difficult time killing me, even at lower levels. I'd definitely stay near my towers when she's around and buy mana items early.

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Let's just turn it into a general anti-Sedna thread.

Should I be embarrassed if, as the Unclean Beast, I find I must cede the battlefield to Sedna every time, from the beginning, if it's a 1v1 situation?

When I see Sedna, I fight her once to see if she's being run by someone who knows what they're doing, then if she is, from then on I simply run to fight somewhere else on the map. I just can't figure out how to make Sedna run away from me.

I read that one should take out her monks first if she has them. But I find that the time it takes to take out the monks leaves me unable to take her out, or scare her away, or anything. I just have to run. And she resummons, and she's golden. I mean, I guess it cost her some mana, but I assume she's got good mana items and armor, so that's no big deal.

Past the first few levels, she can even fight me if I'm next to a tower.

I usually do spit/ooze Unclean Beast, focussing on HP items. I use Blood of the Fallen, though I've been experimenting wiht Marda's Hammer. (Blood seems much better in the long run.) Spit might not be the best thing to do against Sedna since she's got a fairly early (level 7) ability to cancel negative effects. Maybe ooze and (stats and/or bestial wrath) would be better? Bestial wrath is never enough to kill, but maybe it'd be enough to make her run away and let me do the farming.

It's the healing. I can't get past the healing. And in beginning levels, I can't interrupt it. (I'm not sure I'd be able to interrupt it later with foul grasp either--don't they have the same cast time?)

In my experience, from sometime in midgame onwards, she can even handle 2v1 against her pretty handily. Is this normal, or am I probably just doing something horribly wrong?

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I feel like Unclean Beast has a tough time against any general. Against Sedna, I think you should really try to exploit her weaknesses:

Sedna has no ranged attacks, runs out of mana easily, and has a very tough time leveling.

With this in mind, try not to feed her and use your ooze to level yourself up as quickly as possible.

When you do engage her, try to make it at a time after she's been out wandering for a while, maybe after you've seen her expend a heal or two. At that point, I'd try harassing her first: use acid spit from inside your towers and let her spend mana healing herself. If she has minions, try to pick them off using ooze and normal attacks without getting in her range. If you think she's running low on mana, engage.

As you suspected, you can indeed use your stun to interrupt a heal (the stun is instant cast), but it's tough to do. I wouldn't rely on it. Also, I don't feel like this strategy would get you all that many Sedna kills, but if you can drive her away from flags and creeps and keep the level advantage, good things should happen. As for a favor item, I think either blood of the fallen or swift anklet is a good choice. I wouldn't use Mard's Hammer because you may not be using melee attacks primarily.

But like I said above, I feel like UB has a tough time against generals...maybe someone else has a better strategy.

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I wouldn't be embarrassed if you can't drive Sedna from her lane as UB, as I've not found an UB who could early game. I play Sedna when I see an UB on the other team and she functions pretty well as a counter as most UB go for a spit/speed build which Sedna can outlast. Usually what happens is that the UB comes and spits and attacks me. With Blood of the fallen to absorb the damage from spit, I win the auto attack war and the UB runs off. The priest I boughts + my innate regeneration gets me back to full by the time he returns for another harrassment. Late game, I get heal level 3 as soon as possible and watch my allies closely to heal when UB spits them. My damage output sucks but at least I keep my allies from feeding the UB and eventually I can stack enough HP regen items to be very difficult to kill. As for how to fight this, I think you're on the right track with blood of the fallen. I haven't met a UB who was ooze build or one smart enough to take BotF so I'm not sure if I could win the first fight and push that UB out of the lane. Team ups work pretty well as I can't win a 2v1 with Sedna and the presence of an UB means that running away is going to get me killed. I have to run the instant that I see UB + someone else as if I stay for even a second the UB is on top of me, slowing and stunning me while I try to run.

As for TB, I don't fear him if he sits and trades blows but I've found he's very annoying if he sits backs and hits me from range. I can't move up to kill him as that would put me too close to towers and eventually he forces a heal from me and I run out of mana before he does. That being said, he's an easier to kill as all you have to do is get an ally to aid you and then heal whoever TB nukes while bringing him down. Sedna's healing output is pretty close to what the TB's damage output is so if I have an ally to heal that means that they can focus on bringing down TB.

The main weakness of Sedna is that she has no way of dealing with creeps. If you get the game to giants, Sedna is pretty much useless against them. She can't AoE them down (the 200 aoe from heal is nothing) and creeps do a respectable ammount of damage to her once priests and cats come into play. It's sort of embarassing to have to run from a creep wave but that's pretty much what happens when giants come out.

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I play Senda mainly, and let me say you guys are wasting your time trying to fight her one on one early levels.

Unless the player sucks or is using a yeti build, you cant solo her if she is full health/mana, period, until later in the game, and even then not without a serious fight. DONT CHASE HER! She is luring you away to heal then turn on you and slaughter you. And after the first couple levels she is capable of following you PAST your towers, killing you, then wandering out at her leisure. Early game DG killing is her specialty. The way to beat her is like some said, avoid her, outlevel her. You probably wont be able to push her out of her lane alone, but who cares she is horrible at creeping, she gets her levels by killing YOU. Don't let her. IF you have ranged then pick off her minions for the XP but keep your distance.

Also if there is a Sedna playing then be extra careful about ganks. Stay back more than you normally do. Teleport at any sign of a double team BEFORE she gets close enough to interrupt it. In a game with good players who don't let me kill them, I eventually fall back a couple levels and have to work a lot harder.

-LOCK your flags when she is playing, she is a flag capping maniac.

-Watch your portals. She can wander around back there with impunity once she ranks up her heals a couple times.

-If you do get into a fight and can't run then you have to try and interrupt that heal and hope she doesnt have a pot. If you can get the interrupt THEN run for it, she wont chase you. Unless she is almost dead you still dont want to chase her, you will regret it.

-There are a lot of bad senda players that make people think they can beat her one on one. Once you realize the player is good then just give it up and try not to spend time alone. In a group fight she is not very good.

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Sedna will steamroll you 1vs1 or even 2vs1. Her only weakness is she cant kill creep swarms fast or effectively. Forget about trying to kill her. The object of the game isnt to kill the other demigod. Instead try to out war score her, while doing this out farm her by kill monsters faster. Then beat down her citadel with giants.

One thing that hasnt been mentioned is I believe Sedna can make her priests ridiculously powerful by standing near them. Maybe ignore Sedna and kill her priests.

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Thanks for the advice so far. Just a note: I was hoping it was clear from my post that my goal isn't to kill Sedna but rather to scare her away.

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Quoting crashaudiojack,

reply 11

IF you have ranged then pick off her minions for the XP

No XP or gold are awarded for minion kills.

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Yea, the only way I can (half) successfully kill Sedna as an UB is with a teammate. I try to spit her right after she heals for the first time and use my timer to try to interrupt with Foul Grasp. Not always successful but if you stun earlier, your teammate gets another 2secs of punching time to try to budge her +5k HP. It works even better if the other guy has stun too.

But of course Sedna loves the crowd and the crowd loves Sedna, so you can expect not to find her alone most of the times.

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Ice.

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Don't go Spit against Sedna as UB, you need to go HP and Ooze build. Later on, learn to foul grasp as she goes to heal.

Sedna is mana intensive with heal and pounce, going Ooze makes her burn that mana fast. Plus as she is auto-attack dependant, only having pounce as spell damage, the slowing effect of Ooze really hurts her. Another tip is to take out those monks first, with Ooze on that won't take too long.

I thought I couldn't live without Spit, but I go completely auto attack with UB and Ooze after good advice from Thrandiul. Makes me laugh when she pops off Silence and it has no effect.

I also always carry a pot or two with me, in case things go a little wrong, at least you can then get out.

As for Ice TB, I don't have a lot of advice, I suck as Ice TB, I think the general idea is that you don't take her on directly, nor any other DG for that matter, you should have a team mate with you that you assist.

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Quoting will516,

reply 12

One thing that hasnt been mentioned is I believe Sedna can make her priests ridiculously powerful by standing near them. Maybe ignore Sedna and kill her priests.

Probably not a good idea unless you've just seen her summon the priests. Level 1 monks have 720hp each so they're not easy to kill right away. Also once you finish killing the monks, Sedna can just resummon them and resummoning monks seems to reset their heal timer so they can immedately heal Sedna for 20% of her life. If she's just summoned the priests, it might be worth it to kill them off but the cooldown on the idol is pretty low and I don't think that's a battle that you'll win.

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As a rook, I find that I can hold my own against Sedna temporarily if I get to the flag first and get two towers up before she arrives.

Even then, she will push me out before I hit level four. And once she is level four or five, I won't even attempt to be on the same screen as her until I am level 15 or so unless it is an obvious 2 (hopefully 3) v1 situation.

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Sedna is pretty easy to kill if you are a pure fire build.

Open up with fireball, lay down a circle of fire, then nova when she gets close. At level 15, all of these combined will do over 3000 damage if she stays in your circle of fire to keep attacking you.

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