raiz265

Join Date 06/2009

First to giants wins, no matter what?

hey.

so first of all, i'd like you to look at this screenshot and ask you about what you think how the game was like (no i don't want to show off how big my e-peen is or whatever)

so impartially i'd say we played much better than the other team and pretty much owned them...

but the thing is; we nearly lost it, because they had giants like 1 or 2 minutes before we had them, we did have the gold, but they reached war rank 10 before we did, eventhough they died all the time... they downed all our towers infront of our citadel and even locked the 30% damage point there, my mate already thought the game to be lost, but we still managed to turn it around somehow..

thats pretty frustrating imho... we played much better than they did, they just rushed in capped portals and stuff and in most cases died in the end of their kamikaze mission, what kind of strategy is that?

i really like the game, but i really bothers me that it makes things like this possible

http://rapidshare.de/files/47661033/FirstToGiantsWins_nearly_.DGReplay.html

here's the replay of the game.. maybe some of you could watch it and give me some plausible reasons on how this can be possible, because as i said imho it shouldn't be..

greetins

raiz

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This really shouldn't bother you at all. I'm actually grateful that teams can turn a game around with planning/strategy. If you want to just play a deathmatch you should play with the Slaughter game type.

I commend the other team on changing strategies to grab flags and get war rank 10 before you so they could win via creep pushes, since they were clearly getting beat on just straight up fights. You almost lost because your strategy was to just focus on kills while they looked at the big picture and realized that kills are not the only thing that matters in Conquest.

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Honestly, I hate Cat. That map when cats/giants come into play, its who can cap flags the fastest. I hate that crap.

But Giants too early can screw you over. If the other team can dig in, they can amass TONS of mula and exp and come back for the win. Other then Cat that is.

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i actually do appreciate the fact that you can turn around games eventhough you're behind. in dota this is much more difficult or maybe impossible in most cases.

but i feel like that it should not have been possible in a case like this... dunno...

but anyway, we encountered "lets save all our gold to rush to giants asap"-strategy several times today but its pretty hard to counter without doing the same, because once the enemy team gets the giants and you cant catch up on that you're pretty much screwed... and a strategies like that seem very boring to me somehow

i guess i'll watch the replay again tomorrow...

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I give those guys props for being able to get to war rank 10 first...I mean what on earth were you guys doing? You dominated them in kills/deaths, you should have dominated them in flags. It's not just a situation where they saved their money for giants. You even said they got war rank 10 first...that means they kept more flags and for longer than your team.

On a game like Conquest that's pretty silly. I mean like the dude who posted already said, go play Slaughter. The game isn't only about getting your kill/death ratio high. As these guys obviously showed Personally I think thats a reason to like the game MORE not less.

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yeh i had this several times, the key is to have alot of AoE firepower, either by any of the 3 classes you played or i found an ooze UB works really good aswell, so you rape the giants etc as they converge into 1 pile, you just farm the heck out of them, get more levels and more gold out of them and then when you build giants aswell you push out and rape them cause of your massive level and gold advantage.

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the question is: how could the enemy team got the war rank and the gold this fast, although we dominate them so hard?

one possible reason for this is, that the minions from erebus were very (to?) strong at the beginning (level 1-8?). they can hold a line alone. as assassin-oak i have tryed to cap some flags, which was defended only from the minions... if i have no shield ready, i have to run, cause of their heavy damage output

sorry for the bad english :>

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there are 3 resources in Demigod : war score, xp and gold and as long as you are ahead in any of them you still have a small chance to win even if you are very behind in the other 2 resources.

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Just because you dealt the most damage, doesn't mean you out played them.

They utterly destroyed you in flag caps.

Theres more dimensions to the game than pasting your opponents into oblivion.

For instance I managed to get a 3v3 yesterday. As UB. We won. But my damage done was far below my team mates, however, throughout most of the match I was holding a Tower Rook at bay from the 20% xp flag, which I'm sure helped immensely.

However I couldnt help feeling like I was slacking somewhat seeing as my numbers werent as high as my team mates

Anyway, my point is, there are more ways to win a game than by pasting your oponents into oblivion.

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I tend to agree. When I play Erebus - I like the minion build - I feel like I'm falling back too much, or generally just not kicking enough ass. TB and Reg, for example, keep me running back and forth too much. However I do help - I'm just not the point man. My awards at the end are usually just the Citadel Upgrades and Structures, however I do take flags half the time as well.

When I play Rook, I can hold a lane against most Demigods and not move. UB, with Spit, can be a pain, however I usually do pretty good. At the end of the match, I usually have Damage, Grunts Killed and Structures however my flag caps are usually the lowest on the team.

There are many roles to fill on the field, however if everyone is filling one role then the other team has the advantage by exploiting the holes in your battle plan. It's all about team work.

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If they had Giants before you, you were getting outplayed in flag caps.

There is a reason there is a loud announcement everytime your war rank increases. War rank and high level creep are designed to be a crucial part of the game. As stated above. war rank, gold, and xp are the major resources of this game. If you are beating the opponent in one of these categories, it is still possible you can compete.

This is an amazing feature.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Nah, you didnt.. If they had warscore 10 before you, they must have been doing better. That is: they realized that the game is in conquest mode, and as such its not about killing other demigods, but actually capturing and holding flags.

i really like the game, but i really bothers me that it makes things like this possible

Why? If you want a game that is played by kills, look around in the game modes list. Theres a game mode for that as well. Conquest is being played for warscore and the eventual purchase of catapults / giants. Unless you dominate the enemy so badly, that you can simply omgwtfpwn their castle with just the demigods. Did happen for me once, but really.. its not what you usually get in a game.

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Cataract is kinda an exception where people can backdoor and steal your portal.

Normal maps like prison, zikurrat, leving don't have that backdoor so who ever gets more kills usually wins.

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U were playing against a total noob. Look at amount of deaths by Dariot. Look at the amount of grunts he killed as TB, that's pathetic. He was dead for the half the game. He fed your team well. There's almost skill too it. The other players did very well by almost winning it with such a crutch on the team. At the end of the day if you played with Dariot, you would of lost for sure.

I love these smilies (not these specific ones, I mean in general)

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Seems really odd how they got to war rank 10 before you, i mean come on an 0-13 tb?

Backdoor portals is too easy on cataract however, add archer towers beside the side light towers plz.

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Seems to me like someone is just QQing that he almost lost when he was owning with kills....

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Quoting Busdude,

reply 14

Backdoor portals is too easy on cataract however, add archer towers beside the side light towers plz.

I like this idea.

@the original post

I don't think creeps deserve a nerf at all. They are what make the game seem epic. You'd just see more artifacts and auto attack spam than ever if people didn't need to buy creeps at level 10. They are a huge part of the strategy and design of this game.

You have to be on super high alert to back door portal caps on cataract though. They are easy to take. I always make sure to fill up with 3 teleport scrolls and 3 capture locks every time I visit the base from warscore 8 and up on that map, even if I gotta sell my wand of speed or something to make room. You have to be able to get back to your back door portals the moment you see them walking to them, even if its just to lock em and run to the health crystal.

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there are 3 resources in Demigod : war score, xp and gold and as long as you are ahead in any of them you still have a small chance to win even if you are very behind in the other 2 resources.

And occasionally you can be behind in all three and still win

I played a game on Cataract today where our opponents had giants and both of our portals locked for about 5 minutes and we still pulled it out - miracles are what makes the game worth playing

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Quoting Ke5trel,

reply 17

there are 3 resources in Demigod : war score, xp and gold and as long as you are ahead in any of them you still have a small chance to win even if you are very behind in the other 2 resources.
And occasionally you can be behind in all three and still win

I played a game on Cataract today where our opponents had giants and both of our portals locked for about 5 minutes and we still pulled it out - miracles are what makes the game worth playing

it's a shame WAAAAY to many players leave games when things look tough, problem with this being that maybe 1 of the players has a very strong endgame build, or an AoE build that gives him a huge advantage when giants arrive (or actually the whole team because of the exp-split).

another thing that happens way to frequently on custom maps with pugs is that everyone on your/the other team is focused so badly on getting their "uber" gear build or that artifact that makes them "pwn", that they either ignore or just don't have the money to buy the creeps at level 8 or 10, and thus perhaps they'll have the gear advantage and thus get to war level 8-10 earlyer but never buy priests-angels-catas(-giants) and the other team (or yours) will offcourse buy them instantly thus getting the upper hand. (i've had games where my team got to 8 slower but when we got catas we pushed them off the mob lanes and got to giants faster.

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Quoting Blitz64,

reply 12

Cataract is kinda an exception where people can backdoor and steal your portal.

Normal maps like prison, zikurrat, leving don't have that backdoor so who ever gets more kills usually wins.

Absolutely not true. On prison maybe, as there are no extra portals just the ones in the base, but unlike cataract, the prison ones are really hard to take because of the small nature of the map. You can be everywhere all the time.

On leviathan or zikurrat however, there are two extra portal flags in the middle. You merely need to capture and lock those and the giants will do the rest. Thats 4 portals churning out giants for you, versus the 2 portals your enemy has. In other words: twice the number of creeps than they will have. If you have the advantage in warscore, that is.. not only do you have twice the creeps, but you also have stronger and better ones.. thats pretty much game over in 5 minutes, unless the enemy is extremely AoE heavy and can keep the incoming creeps at bay.

Bottomline: Sometimes you just cant match the enemy team with brute force. Either because the composition of the two teams (some demigod pairings are just better than others) or because the difference in skills. If that happens, you have to change gears and try something different.

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there are 3 resources in Demigod : war score, xp and gold

This. Somehow the other team managed to hold more flags and destroy more towers than you, despite dying alot and being thoroughly outleveled. Honestly I can't quite imagine how that happened, but some way or another it obviously did.

It sounds to me like you guys nearly threw the game away, but that was your fault, not DG's. You should not have been beaten to war rank 10 given your massive level and money advantage. Afterwards you should not have let them so easily cap your portals, especially since you could push them around so easily in any contested battle.

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Listen that is a strategy. Rush to giants is a viable way to win this game. However to execute it, you have to buy loads of flag locks (keeping you low on cash) and have to control the majority of the flags. That means that sometimes you gotta suicide to keep the enemy portal flag and flag lock it. I just played a game today where a pickup almost beat us because they rushed to giants and suicided to grab our portal flags and lock them. I liked the strategy, because they were down at least 10k and 2 levels to our team. What would you like to happen, play this game for 2 hours and never get to creeps that can challenge a demigod? I dunno about you, but a lot of games won't finish until giants are reached.

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Teams that capture and hold flags should be rewarded. Map dominance results in higher war score, which in turn enables teams to purchase game-changing Citadel upgrades.

I see no reason to change this.

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They had a TB that had 13 deaths and 0 kills, and you almost lost?

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I have beaten teams like yours, who focused more on DG killing, and less on winning the game. You have to remember that while there are good things about killing a DG, for sure, that ultimately you need to win by killing the citadel (except in Slaughter).

You think you played better, but if they had a higher warscore, but were dead most of the time, then you were making a very bad strategic mistake. You either didn't press your advantage by upping your troops, or you let them get ahead of you on warscore. And I do mean 'let', since you obviously had the opportunity to capture more flags.

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yeh ... i had one of these rounds last night. I turned the whole thing around by capping all minion portals on prison, only to have the game crash with an unhandled exception?!?! WTF?!?!

our citadel health was down to 3000 ... when i managed to stop their spawn rate. we pushed alll the way bak into their base, destroyed everything, damaging the cit, AND POW with an appendage to my face, an unhandled exception or wateva the f*** it is supposed to be crashed the game.

well werent the losers lucky...

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