Nerf Minions » Forum Post by Mindraker

I'm still confused why I don't get exp or gold for killing minions. Seems like the best counter to me.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

I'm still confused why I don't get exp or gold for killing minions. Seems like the best counter to me.

Sounds like a plan. The horn needs adjusted so that you can't use it from anywhere... that's been discussed elsewhere. I do not think using a minion build is unbeatable and requires a nerf, but the horn as it is seems OP.

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That's another thing. If I have to kill minions with godly amounts of life, I want to be compensated for it.

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Quoting fatalend,

I just want to start off by saying holy shit, I just finished possibly the 2 most frustrating demigod games in my life. Erebus maxing out minion upgrades, and sending them to attack towers, and even our citadel, which almost made us lose a game we completely dominated in kills, warscore, and upgrades. If there was more than 1 erebus on the other team using that "strategy", we would have lost. There is no viable counter, as the only way to prevent it is to kill Erebus, and he can sit in his base and send his minions to attack whatever, and they have so much HP that not even the best AOE in the game can take them out (Fire TB). There are 20 minions running around, all with 2000 plus HP, always being healed, that can't be taken out, and they can literally burn the citadel down in a minute... talk about cheese, and something that needs to be addressed immediately. It's game breaking, and I feel lucky to have won the 2 games I participated in where this strategy was used, they were extremely close calls.

If his nightcrawlers had 2000+ HP you were getting stomped anyways. Also, the maximum he could have had at one time is 16. A little less hyperbole, please.

Counters: tower attack, tower health, icy torch, mass charm, ground spikes, ooze beast + post mortem, pressure the minion erebus to prevent him from getting nightcrawlers, hammer slam, mines.

What needs to be nerfed is the unlimited range of the Horn of Battle. Its range should be no greater than that of an Oak's Spirit Ward effective radius.

Also, there is a bug with Horn of Battle and Ring of Might. After being activated even once, the effect automatically applies to all new summoned and spawned minions in perpetuity. It still expires after 10 seconds on each new minion. This is surely skewing the perceived power of the horn.

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I do not think using a minion build is unbeatable and requires a nerf

Whenever a pack of minions can destroy any tower in 7 seconds, or run past them all and do 20k damage to your citadel in 30 seconds, then it needs a nerf. Maybe you haven't played against an Erebus that maxes out his minions before but it is extremely frustrating.

If his nightcrawlers had 2000+ HP you were getting stomped anyways. Also, the maximum he could have had at one time is 16. A little less hyperbole, please.

Counters: tower attack, tower health, icy torch, mass charm, ground spikes, ooze beast + post mortem, pressure the minion erebus to prevent him from getting nightcrawlers, hammer slam, mines.

We weren't getting stomped thank you very much. We were doing the stomping. I really don't think you understand a thing I'm talking about, go try those "counters" and get back to me. The only counter is killing Erebus, who is alot of the time unaccessible.

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Quoting fatalend,

Whenever a pack of minions can destroy any tower in 7 seconds, or run past them all and do 20k damage to your citadel in 30 seconds, then it needs a nerf. Maybe you haven't played against an Erebus that maxes out his minions before but it is extremely frustrating.

Man alive stop exaggerating.

Quoting fatalend,

We weren't getting stomped thank you very much. We were doing the stomping. I really don't think you understand a thing I'm talking about, go try those "counters" and get back to me. The only counter is killing Erebus, who is alot of the time unaccessible.

Considering I invented the minion swarm strategy, I think I might actually know what I'm talking about.

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Sounds like a plan. The horn needs adjusted so that you can't use it from anywhere... that's been discussed elsewhere. I do not think using a minion build is unbeatable and requires a nerf, but the horn as it is seems OP.

Yeah i have the same minset atm, but my biggest annoyance is taking forever to take somones minions out, licking my wounds while the opponent casually resummons them all 10 seconds later. Minions can be effective while still giving a just reward for taking them out. Worked great in dota, minions gave exp if you killed them and gold depending on how hard they were to kill. Minion builds were still effective, just people began to micro them and take care of them instead of suiciding with them.

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Shadow it's not an exaggeration ok? I was away from my citadel and soon as it started getting attacked, I ran back towards it, by the time I got there it was a few thousand HP away from death.

Look at my record, and then come tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm a good player and you aren't looking at the big picture. Sometimes a combination of Demigods can not possibly counter that strategy. I couldn't do shit against it as a sedna. I had an oak on my team, once again, nothing that could be done. Hell, if there was 2 erebuses on that team using that strategy, it's GG, therefore it's unfair and needs to be nerfed, too much shit for me to manage. I can't pressure erebus forever and stop him from getting minions, all maps are big and there's alot of things to do, he will eventually get his full army no matter what.

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Quoting fatalend,

reply 8

Shadow it's not an exaggeration ok? I was away from my citadel and soon as it started getting attacked, I ran back towards it, by the time I got there it was a few thousand HP away from death.

Look at my record, and then come tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm a good player and you aren't looking at the big picture. Sometimes a combination of Demigods can not possibly counter that strategy. I couldn't do shit against it as a sedna. I had an oak on my team, once again, nothing that could be done. Hell, if there was 2 erebuses on that team using that strategy, it's GG, therefore it's unfair and needs to be nerfed, too much shit for me to manage. I can't pressure erebus forever and stop him from getting minions, all maps are big and there's alot of things to do, he will eventually get his full army no matter what.

Yes, Sedna is the worst possible Demigod to counter it. This has been known for weeks now. If you see an Erebus or Oak on the other team you need some AOE, plain and simple. Your team MUST work together, you can't all be running off doing your separate thing. Congratulations on never having to deal with this before and after seeing it for the first time assuming it's uncounterable.

Also believe it or not, two minion builds on a three man team is weaker than just one minion build.

And you *really* don't want to bring one's record into this discussion.

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Congratulations on never having to deal with this before and after seeing it for the first time assuming it's uncounterable.

Also believe it or not, two minion builds on a three man team is weaker than just one minion build.

And you *really* don't want to bring one's record into this discussion.

I know you "invented" the "strategy" so you're defending it as much as you can here, but I've seen it a few times, not once. Played as a torch bearer against it once, my AOE was ineffective. I had several kills and had good items, Oak, Sedna, and Erebus was on the opposite team. It's so easy for Erebus to create minions that killing any of them was not a big deal. Oak and Sedna are not nearly as bad, but still a pain in the ass.

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If he's using minions you shoulve went with frost nova it wastes horns effect.

Edit:why do they need nerfed? do you want to have everybody running around as assassins again because you know how to counter them? I for one think its very fun to play minion builds the DG that uses them is usually very squishy and Erebus has to be near the creeps to get nightwalkers just scare him away...

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Quoting fatalend,

reply 8

Shadow it's not an exaggeration ok? I was away from my citadel and soon as it started getting attacked, I ran back towards it, by the time I got there it was a few thousand HP away from death.

Look at my record, and then come tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm a good player and you aren't looking at the big picture. Sometimes a combination of Demigods can not possibly counter that strategy. I couldn't do shit against it as a sedna. I had an oak on my team, once again, nothing that could be done. Hell, if there was 2 erebuses on that team using that strategy, it's GG, therefore it's unfair and needs to be nerfed, too much shit for me to manage. I can't pressure erebus forever and stop him from getting minions, all maps are big and there's alot of things to do, he will eventually get his full army no matter what.

I hosted that game. You still beat us, so why are you complaining so much? We had two fragile DGs. It was a bad match up to begin with. In any case, my ally 100% without a doubt did not get your Citadel down to "a few thousand HP away from death." I saw it get down to ~20,000. I distinctly remember thinking that we were going to lose, so I was excited to see your Cit getting hammered. Nonetheless, we lost, but really the hyperbole is awful here on your part.

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Shadow, would you care to show me what build you use?

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If the rollies have 2k hp one team has let it drag on far too long already.

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My team just got steamrolled by shadows team last night. He was using this erubus Minion build. Playing as sedna I was completely useless. Instead of freaking out, put some thought into a possible counter. Practice, learn, get better. All I can do is tip my hat and say I got beat by a better strat by a good player. All your complaining gets you nothing. At least he isn't a total D1nk like Foreshadowed who will only play you on his map on his terms and if HE hosts so he can quit.

+1

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Quoting warbirdd,

reply 15

My team just got steamrolled by shadows team last night. He was using this erubus Minion build. Playing as sedna I was completely useless. Instead of freaking out, put some thought into a possible counter. Practice, learn, get better. All I can do is tip my hat and say I got beat by a better strat by a good player. All your complaining gets you nothing. At least he isn't a total D1nk like Foreshadowed who will only play you on his map on his terms and if HE hosts so he can quit.

We got steamrolled by the better team who plays a lot more as a team... I mean shit Puhlboy is pretty freaking useless, since he took over a month off from the game. Was cool to learn a new interesting strat.

+1

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Shadow, now that you have acknowledged that the horn is broken and now you've started a wave of cheesy horn erebus players, can you please stop using it?

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Quoting MABManZ,

reply 17

Shadow, now that you have acknowledged that the horn is broken and now you've started a wave of cheesy horn erebus players, can you please stop using it?

Well he didn't last night, so his Horn Users Anonymous meetings might finally be paying off.

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Sure he did, I could hear the horn sound. But the way I see it , when HOL was OP I used it almost every game. Use whats strong to the best of your abilities. I would have my sedna run around with 4 priests before that was changed. Use and abuse away and take every advantage you can to win. If something is deemed OP it will eventualy get changed and you will have to think of new ways to get an advantage. Isnt that part of the fun ?

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Quoting MABManZ,

Shadow, now that you have acknowledged that the horn is broken and now you've started a wave of cheesy horn erebus players, can you please stop using it?

I'm already adjusting my play to compensate for an impending nerf. Also, my Citadel stomps don't work against good players who are prepared. I still have to work for the win and the rest of my team still has to bring their A game. We've won very few games against prepared good players because of my build (besides you, ironically ), it's usually been the stellar performance of my team mates getting kills and sealing the deal. Once they get far enough ahead in items to keep the entire team at bay, sure, I tear shit apart.

for warbirdd and Covenn.

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Quoting Shadow,

reply 20

MABManZ Shadow, now that you have acknowledged that the horn is broken and now you've started a wave of cheesy horn erebus players, can you please stop using it?
I'm already adjusting my play to compensate for an impending nerf. Also, my Citadel stomps don't work against good players who are prepared. I still have to work for the win and the rest of my team still has to bring their A game. We've won very few games against prepared good players because of my build (besides you, ironically ), it's usually been the stellar performance of my team mates getting kills and sealing the deal. Once they get far enough ahead in items to keep the entire team at bay, sure, I tear shit apart.

for warbirdd and Covenn.

Funny, looking at your games list, your only "losses" where games I was involved in (all 2 of them) Either on your team or against you. So I don't know of these "very few games" you've won or presumably didn't win.

I will not deny having CdrRogdan and Rapier around makes it infinitely impossible to defeat you.

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Funny, looking at your games list, your only "losses" where games I was involved in (all 2 of them) Either on your team or against you. So I don't know of these "very few games" you've won or presumably didn't win.

ur bad luck. buff MABManZ plox.

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What I dont' like is that erebus can send all his minions which refresh in 10 seconds or so at you and they can easily do 2k damage to you before you kill them all WITHOUT HIM EVEN BEING THERE.

I want their health nerfed a little but don't OVERDO IT. I myself play erebus and think his minions are OP at times.

Truthfully I think early game they suck. Tower's AoE eats them WAY too easily but then when you get late game and his minions alone can eat a tower while erebus is up a little ways farming away... thats kindof annoying.

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I don't even know why there are generals. Minions feel like such an afterthought to me. Which sucks because all the general promises is what made me want to play the game.

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Quoting XaviorsFist,

What I dont' like is that erebus can send all his minions which refresh in 10 seconds or so at you and they can easily do 2k damage to you before you kill them all WITHOUT HIM EVEN BEING THERE.

I want their health nerfed a little but don't OVERDO IT. I myself play erebus and think his minions are OP at times.

Truthfully I think early game they suck. Tower's AoE eats them WAY too easily but then when you get late game and his minions alone can eat a tower while erebus is up a little ways farming away... thats kindof annoying.

You must have missed it:

What needs to be nerfed is the unlimited range of the Horn of Battle. Its range should be no greater than that of an Oak's Spirit Ward effective radius.

Also, there is a bug with Horn of Battle and Ring of Might. After being activated even once, the effect automatically applies to all new summoned and spawned minions in perpetuity. It still expires after 10 seconds on each new minion. This is surely skewing the perceived power of the horn.

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