A different way to look at it, though, is that the 100 people have a hugely negative effect on the 1900.  So by addressing the needs of the 100, you get them out of the games with the 1900 and the 1900 remains content instead of dwindling to 1800 then 1700, etc.

Point in case, look at Pantheon.  Pantheon was ruined by a small number of premades and it doesn't seem to have recovered.

Another point in case, people that have been around the block recognize the premade games in the custom lobby and avoid them.  Not true with new or younger players.  Do you really want your first introduction to the game to be against a premade?  How long would you continue to play a game after 4 or 5 of those stompings - especially when one of your teammates that actually knows what he is doing is yelling at you the whole time.

From FB's posting the gameplay is pretty much set with minor tweaks coming down the pipe.  Fortunately, the gameplay is pretty solid.  Hopefully they can get some good bells and whistles to go along with the MP lobby.  If anything, they can translate them into the next game.

QFT

Here is what I wrote within a few hours after my original comment on 1900 vs. 100:

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/359613

The main point being lost here is that while Demigod will continue to evolve, the game, as released is the game.  We can talk all day about games that have feature X or Y that someone thinks "must" be in Demigod but the absence of such a feature doesn't mean that Demigod "must" have it added.  

What features get into Demigod are a combination of what the most active players want combined with how much it costs to put them in combined with what features the publisher (Stardock in this case) is willing or able to pay to have put in as part of its pretty well known post-release support.

Now, I realize there's a silent majority but I can tell you flat out that it gets pretty hard to get people to volunteer to stay late in the Summer when they feel like their sacrifices post-release already earned very little good will.  I mean, the game now has international proxy support that was developed entirely by the game's publisher. Yet we still get posts like "I'll never buy a Stardock game again".  

All we're looking for in the Demigod community is some semblance of constructive behavior with realistic expectations.  

Some people act like they're the only ones who have wish lists.  I have my own rather lengthy set of wish lists:

Brad's WANT list:

1. More Demigods. 

2. More maps.

3. Ability to let modders mod the single player AI.

4. A much bigger single player campaign.

5. Ability for players to have ranked or unranked custom games by their own choice.

6. Team Skirmish games.

7. Clan Skirmish games.

8. Clan Tournaments (seperate from pantheon)

9. Massive modding support so people can make their own maps, demigods, items, minions, etc.

10. Flags that give the side owning them active powers.

and on and on and on.

As the game's publisher, I can push on some of these features to get done as well as see what features Stardock can develop for the game itself.

But as a practical matter, a game, at release, is the game minus bug fixes.  That's the norm.  Stardock's philosophy of continuing to add new features to games and such is not the norm.  If you want a game that is going to keep getting lots of new features post release you should be picking games developed by Stardock but to assume other developers have this philosophy is not fair to the developer.  

GPG never signed on to make an expansion pack's worth of features available in a series of free updates. It signed on to release meaningful post-release updates.  

To illustrate what I mean: Having replays in an update is a perfectly reasonable thing. That replays weren't in v1.0 doesn't mean the game was "incomplete".  If I were a reviewer, I might take points off for not having it but it doesn't mean the game "has to have it".  

Replays will be in v1.2 (we're requiring it) but that's a big difference from developing some sort of in-game team-based system.

Now, that said, it doesn't mean a particular feature people want won't ever make it in.  But what I am trying to do here is set people's expectations so that they don't come back in 6 weeks yelling about how they were "promised" some big feature.

It is probably a good point that its not reasonable to expect developers to miraculously introduce a whole lot of new stuff within months of a game's release.  And yes, its probably true that a lot of the criticism on the boards the last few weeks falls into the cateogry of "frustrated venting" intead of "constructive criticism".

However, SD/GPG needs to take something important out of the frustrated venting.  Its just not acceptable to release a primarily multiplayer game nowadays that doesnt have features like clan support, proper stats, proper automatching etc.  Those things are standard nowadays and have been for a decade.

So I disagree with what I quoted above.  A game nowdays MUST have clan support and appropriate automatching (for example) if its primarily multiplayer and anything other than a bargain bin type deal.  A multiplayer game of this nature without those features IS incomplete to me.

Now I realize that at this point in time its something of a moot point.  The game was released before that stuff got put in, and now that the game is out it doesnt really do much good to harp on it too much.

The bottom line is that from your posts it seems like you are missing a really important message from all the frustrated whining that is going on: many people expected something much better from great companies like GPG and SD at release.  Your exemplary post release work doesnt completely make up for that.  What they are saying is that a multiplayer game without clan support (for example) IS incomplete in the eyes of many people.  And your refusal to really fully acknowledge this is making people nervous about buying future SD multiplayer games.

I know that I've been nagging at you quite a bit.  Its because I like SD's games and am really really looking forward to future games like Elemental.  I just think that it would be a real shame if you didnt learn from the lessons of DG's release.  And it seems like from some of your posts that you really havent grasped the message that I think many people are trying to send you.  Maybe I'm just not interpreting your posts correctly, but thats what is making me nervous as I read them.

Heck, most of what I'm blaming on SD is probably unfair.  I'm firmly in the "SD is doing a good job, GPG doesnt seem to be doing their part" camp.  But be that as it may, it would still calm people I think if you indicated that you had learned from GPG's mistakes instead of trying to get people to praise you for putting in features that should have really been in to begin with (even though GPG should have been responsible for putting them in and the fact that SD is doing what they can to get them in later is nice).

Awesomesauce.

Sorry, I didn't see anything in any of his posts suggesting anything "similar" to the sentiments of them "giving up" on teamplay.  I think you're stretching to be victimized.

I wasn't searching for any claims you were making - I was pointing out how it's more logical to cater to the masses instead of a couple of vocal members of a minority.  Please, try to pay attention.

No, they wouldn't have, Mr. Hyperbole.

In ever RTS I've played, despite there being matchmaking for teams, there is *still* team stacking in custom games because not every team plays automatch all the time, in fact, not even a majority of the time.  I know you *think* team matchmaking "fixes everything", but that's because *all you want* is team matchmaking.  I agree that it is needed - I definitely want to see it implemented sooner rather than later - but it isn't the panacea you're trying so desperately to make it out to be.  There are other people with opinions as to how they want their game experience to run; your way isn't necessarily the best way for all parties concerned.

I know, it's silly for me to infer that they're working toward that goal because they've *already said* that they are working toward clan support and making it easier for friends to get in games with one another.  Such a large leap I took on that one.  

Think you might have just hit the nail on the head, Demigod was just too polished (something Chris Taylor is guilty of in ALL his games), this has done nothing but make it very inaccessible to the community.

DotA was just a simple way to waste time and have fun (at least at the time of its creation), taking the core ideals of the game, but shifting the emphasis to the technical aspects reduces that fun aspect. Sure it looks beautiful but many (even myself) might admit the more cartoonish style of LoL and HoN are more fitting for this genre. It also limits the modding potential as we are seeing with the issues you're having now with granny etc. Perhaps you can have too much of a good thing after all.

Lesson to learn (hopefully someone at GPG reads this!)...spend more time at the planning stage, focus on complimenting the core game mechanics rather than overwhelming them.

I want 50+ more demigods, or modding tools that allow the community to turn this game into Dota.

Kplzthx.

Love you brad,

-Slurple

My definition of complete is when a developer believes that the game is done. GPG thought the game was done (features). This is the game they intended to make. Any other definition of "complete" is subjective.

100% agree.

Indeed. As it stands, I believe the game is complete, and fantastic. Anything more - extra DG's, extra maps, team support, VOIP, modding etc - will just be an added bonus, and in my eyes that's awesome.

hmm stacked technically he does have to deal with the community  that is one of the jobs of the publisher

He's responsible when the customers of McDonalds decide to boycott the company because their food is poor quality, in the same way Frogboy would be responsible if the forums were full of outcry at a poor product (which was the case on release with networking issues, but has since been remedied) that could lead to poor customer satisfaction or a bad reputation.

In any case I like the way Stardock interacts with its customers and it's disappointing that it's turned a little sour for this game in particular.