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Please don't nerf the Vasari

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RiddleKing
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
+32
Reply #26 December 9, 2011 3:30:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinperium,
reply 25
I've heard the upcoming changes to vasari include an "auto-retreat ability" that forces them to flee a gravity well when fired on.  It allows them to keep their awesomeness but not be able to abuse it.



...tee hee.

 

EVERYBODY hates phase missiles. If you can't beat em, join em. LETS all use vasari and die happy.

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RiddleKing
gamerlamb
Join Date 03/2011
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Reply #27 December 9, 2011 3:38:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 24
The one thing that needs more attention is counters to LRM and Bombers: < Fighters

I can accept the need to balance Fighters vs LRM but not against Bombers. Right now, unless Flak-type weapons get a major rework in general, Fighters are the ONLY true counter massed Bombers outside of a few niche abilities (Flak Burst/Phasic Trap/Telekinetic Push).

I love the SINS game but in general, it has way too much love for SC. In a future where space battle was actually feasible, no fleet would expend it's resources depending on small 1 man spacecraft easily destroyed by any kinetic weapon of even today's standards. If fighters are nerfed vs Bombers, then those of us who prefer to use HC or LRF's will be totally left dependent on the few anti-SC Cap Ship abilities. Again, unless Flak is reworked to have greater effect against Bombers.

Good gosh, if us non-bomber lovers didn't have fighters.............the room just got very cold.

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RiddleKing
RiddleKing
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Reply #28 December 9, 2011 4:44:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

well.. supreme commander got it right. anti-air will shoot down anything that flys. fighters and bombers.

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RiddleKing
gamerlamb
Join Date 03/2011
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Reply #29 December 9, 2011 6:28:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 28
well.. supreme commander got it right. anti-air will shoot down anything that flys. fighters and bombers.

True, though I have always felt that SupCom was too far in the other direction. I mean come on, target tracking energy projectiles? Really? REALLY?

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RiddleKing
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #30 December 10, 2011 12:18:27 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting gamerlamb,
reply 29

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 28well.. supreme commander got it right. anti-air will shoot down anything that flys. fighters and bombers.

True, though I have always felt that SupCom was too far in the other direction. I mean come on, target tracking energy projectiles? Really? REALLY?

 

Yes really-- lol

As if sins doesn't have its share of fringe science.

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RiddleKing
Mecha-Lenin
Join Date 02/2006
+36
Reply #31 December 10, 2011 10:10:58 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

/Random troll post

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RiddleKing
HouseRalan
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #32 December 11, 2011 1:37:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The new TCA titan -the wonder turtle- is constructed from billions of fresh roach motels and the Vasari will be rendered sterile.

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RiddleKing
Joccaren
Join Date 06/2008
+3
Reply #33 January 7, 2012 10:25:02 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ok, let me get this straight...

You are saying that the Vasari are OP, but that is the reason not to rebalance them?

Umm... What?

If a race is OP it needs to be rebalanced for multiplayer fairness. It does not matter that you enjoy pwning things with it. To continue to do that, lower the AI level. What matters is that multiplayer is balanced so that not everyone ends up using the Vasari.

Though, massive strike craft fleets are epic against unprepared Vasari. If they see it coming though (Much more likely), you're screwed.

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RiddleKing
Sinperium
Join Date 02/2010
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Reply #34 January 7, 2012 12:00:42 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Nerf them...nerf them allllll.

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RiddleKing
Sinperium
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Reply #35 January 7, 2012 12:02:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 30

As if sins doesn't have its share of fringe science.

What!?  Blasphemer!! Sins is based on completely real and sound scientific suppositions...just like Star Trek and Star Wars were!!

 

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RiddleKing
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
+240
Reply #36 January 7, 2012 12:14:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Dude, really?

First off, I phased jumped myself once...it is not at all like in Sins...

Second, ponies can't survive in space...only unicorns can...

And finally, the distinct lack of certain genders/races in certain factions is not realistic at all...where are the Rastafarian blue people?  I feel they are severely underrepresented....

On a slightly more serious note, I'll never forget those classic debates of the past...there was the one thread about how phase jumping actually worked, which eventually digressed into the viability of dodging lasers...then there was the one about how many people could realistically live on a planet...then someone calculated the volume of a trade ship using the in-game graphics...oh, were those fun...

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RiddleKing
Sinperium
Join Date 02/2010
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Reply #37 January 7, 2012 12:48:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's ironic...I actually was talking to someone today about a texture for a model that reads:

 

DANGER!

OSCILLATION OVERTHRUSTER IN OPERATION.

8TH DIMENSIONAL RADIATION HAZARD!

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RiddleKing
Seleuceia
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Reply #38 January 7, 2012 1:16:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Possible side effects include nausea, strange tingling feelings, and YOUR MIND BEING BLOWN AWAY 

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RiddleKing
Sinperium
Join Date 02/2010
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Reply #39 January 7, 2012 1:22:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Free you mind and the rest will follow.

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RiddleKing
GuildedTrader
Join Date 03/2010
+16
Reply #40 January 8, 2012 1:35:32 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

But we have to nerf the Vasari!

THEIR POWER IS UNMATCHED.

/joke

Really, the Vasari are just the classic "Powerhouse" faction that's in quite a few RTSes. Strong but expensive units. It really balances itself.

Hell, they even get the worst planet upgrades. Who the hell needs more population on volcanoes? Nobody. TEC and the Advent get to have tech for the actually habitable worlds.

Plus, their missile tech doesn't get any damage upgrade until way late in the game.

They're balanced, trust me. Perhaps more experienced players will have some complaints about little things, but for the most part, it's balanced. 

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RiddleKing
Wrath89
Join Date 05/2011
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Reply #41 January 8, 2012 2:29:45 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SgtHydra,
reply 40
Plus, their missile tech doesn't get any damage upgrade until way late in the game.

Not exactly. Shield negation does effectively translate into greater damage done: at max shield mitigation, each upgrade gives a 5% chance for a PM to do about 3x its normal damage. Against capital ships, this translates into +15% effective damage for each upgrade (of which there are 6 total). Against frigates, this is significantly lower, probably around +5% to +10% damage or so, but it's still significant.

When a Vasari player early in the game at only weapons tier 3 can do 160% of their normal damage against enemy capital ships with Assailants, that's huge.

(Not that this necessarily makes the Vasari OP.)

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RiddleKing
GuildedTrader
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Reply #42 January 9, 2012 6:01:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Wrath89,
reply 41

Quoting SgtHydra, reply 40Plus, their missile tech doesn't get any damage upgrade until way late in the game.

Not exactly. Shield negation does effectively translate into greater damage done: at max shield mitigation, each upgrade gives a 5% chance for a PM to do about 3x its normal damage. Against capital ships, this translates into +15% effective damage for each upgrade (of which there are 6 total). Against frigates, this is significantly lower, probably around +5% to +10% damage or so, but it's still significant.

When a Vasari player early in the game at only weapons tier 3 can do 160% of their normal damage against enemy capital ships with Assailants, that's huge.

(Not that this necessarily makes the Vasari OP.)

While I do agree that the shield negation tech is a worthwhile upgrade and benefits Vasari players greatly, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong here) that it's bonuses do not affect ships who's shields are already down. In that situation, the tech of other factions is slightly superior to that of the Vasari. Add to that the expensive production costs, and thing balance themselves out.

And this sort of thing is the case for everybody in one situation or another. Every faction has its strengths and weaknesses, something that the OP fails to see. It's neither perfect nor foolproof, as victory is reliant on tactics and proper management of your assets rather than mere DPS.

The only thing that's really OP in this game are pirate rushes.

God I hate those.

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RiddleKing
Pbhead
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #43 January 9, 2012 6:14:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SgtHydra,
reply 42





While I do agree that the shield negation tech is a worthwhile upgrade and benefits Vasari players greatly, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong here) that it's bonuses do not affect ships who's shields are already down.

 

 

you are wrong. and i am correcting you.

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RiddleKing
GuildedTrader
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Reply #44 January 9, 2012 7:34:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Pbhead,
reply 43


you are wrong. and i am correcting you.

Fair enough, but why on the wiki does it describes the Phase Miniturization tech bonus as:

"WeaponIgnoresShieldsAdjustment" +5.0% for "Phasemissile" weapons

And the NME Warheads bonus as:

"WeaponDamageAdjustment" +10.0% for "Phasemissile" weapons

I kinda trusted the wiki on this, but you know how reliable "anyone can edit" sites are...

So is that all still valid or was it changed in later versions?

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RiddleKing
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #45 January 9, 2012 7:39:14 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The last PM tech legitimately is a straight up damage increase...only the first 3 levels help PMs bypass shields...

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RiddleKing
HouseRalan
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Reply #46 January 9, 2012 7:41:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

nerf them all, let the server sort them out

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RiddleKing
GuildedTrader
Join Date 03/2010
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Reply #47 January 9, 2012 7:57:22 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SemazRalan,
reply 46
nerf them all, let the server sort them out

And the award for "Best Post of the Day" goes to...

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RiddleKing
Wrath89
Join Date 05/2011
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Reply #48 January 9, 2012 8:27:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SgtHydra,
reply 44
Fair enough, but why on the wiki does it describes the Phase Miniturization tech bonus as:

"WeaponIgnoresShieldsAdjustment" +5.0% for "Phasemissile" weapons

And the NME Warheads bonus as:

"WeaponDamageAdjustment" +10.0% for "Phasemissile" weapons

I kinda trusted the wiki on this, but you know how reliable "anyone can edit" sites are...

So is that all still valid or was it changed in later versions?

Check out this wiki page.

https://www.sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Mitigation

The "WeaponIgnoresShieldsAdjustment" etc is the in-game descriptor for the modifier's effects - don't blame the wiki for how the devs decided to name the variables.

Shield mitigation is present even when shields are down. It was a dumb naming decision IMO and should have been something like "Damage mitigation" or something of the sort since it really has very little to do with shields.

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RiddleKing
Zeta1127
Join Date 02/2011
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Reply #49 January 10, 2012 1:03:44 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, many techs throughout the various tech trees on the wiki still need their effects changed from the in-game descriptor to plain English so your average person can understand them.

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RiddleKing
RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #50 January 13, 2012 3:11:24 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I smell trolls in here and it aint me-modders behave plz. We know you are hurting these days but im sure we'll all cope. Now i for one want to play a more powerful advent but i don't want to play a nerfed vasari. 

 

" It is better to beat howthe with a race once thought to be weaker than the rest "

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