As for ICO: I'm open to the suggestion. Don't  think I'm nearly ready for that yet, however. Also, what's wrong with the AL and Coronata?

So, 20% bonus damage and increased shield mitigation in culture, max allegiance increase, 150% bonus shield regen in culture, free ships and shield-recharging structures are all bad? Who knew. Sure, it's not nearly as spectacular as, say, twin starbases, Stripped to the Core or Starbase Mobilization, but there has to be some merit to these bonuses right?

Thanks for the advice, will do.

Neither the Coronata nor the Ankylon have good AoE abilities for destroying mass amounts of frigates...all other titans can handle infinite amounts of frigates rather well once they get a few levels on them...Ankylon and Coronata, however, are going to have some difficulties with that...main reason Coronata is better than Ankylon is because Unity Mass at least gives it a good focus fire ability (though it requires nearby frigates to actually be really useful)...

To be honest, the concept of the Ankylon and Coronata is more appealing to me than the other 4 titans...but in actual competitive games they aren't very good...

The simple answer is no, those bonuses really aren't all that great...yes, you should research them (they are after all bonuses, take everything you can get) if you have the resources to spare, but the lab and resource requirements relegate most of those bonuses to late game, and they often aren't going to be turning the tide of any battle...

For TL, twin fortresses and novas are your core strategy, nothing else about them is really all that special (counter-deployment could be good in a select few situations)...for AL, there's really nothing that's special (if Global Unity were a lot easier to get and spawned more culture, maybe it would)...for AR, it is wail and the Eradica, nothing else matters...for TR, TAR is great if you are eco, but otherwise not much worth getting (maybe savage thrill)...

Now Vasari have a lot of neat tricks up their sleeves (they are also the strongest factions by far), but you weren't interested in those...

Like I said, it really matters if you are interested in competitive games or not....if you aren't, and are just looking to have fun, then play whatever faction and do whatever you think is most fun (I personally like TL and AL the most even though they suck)....many people find abusing SttC or jumping Orkies to be very fun though in SP, making me think that in many cases most powerful = most fun...

In competitive games, I almost exclusively go with TR and AR (I'm cursed when I play Vasari)....

Vasari have corvettes and phase missile bombers to kill titans win.  the primary role of titans is to counter large fleets of frigates to begin with.  And the Vasari Rebel titan does sport phase missiles, which increase it's ability to fight titans a bit.

Not having to bring flak frigates that die extremely quickly to AoE and feed the enemy titan to counter corvettes is a pretty big advantage.  That said it's not exactly the only strength of the Vasari titans-  The Vorastra has extreme mobiltiy to stay alive with and chase down carriers and late game becomes the single largest threat to fleets in the game.  The Vasari Rebel titan likewise renders frigates more or less obsolete, can disable carriers to keep them from kiting and again has phase missles that make it dangerous to capitalships & titans.

That said I'm less bothered by titan level 6 abilities hitting corvettes- by that stage of the game players are generally transitioning to carriers anyway.  It's mainly desperation's AoE which I don't think should hit corvettes.

The most important things for learning to play competatively are:

1). learn to expand fast:

Pretty much every race starts with either the carrier capitalship or colony capitalship(TEC usually tend towards colony, advent is split).  in general though, the carrier will allow faster expansion and a stronger early military whereas the colony capship will save you resources, making it a bit easier to manage all the various costs of building an economy(building extractors, planetary population upgrades, and trade port costs mainly).  Make sure you scuttle your capitalship factory after building your starting capitalship- doing so frees up logistic your early economy will need.

Your first priority when attempting to colonize  a planet is to wipe out siege frigates, then colonize immediately and start buildign a turret.  Your capitalship will generally move on after taking out any Javelis long range frigates, and your turret will clean up any light frigates or flak frigates while you capitalship move on to start clearing the next planet.  After the turret finishes cleaning up you should scuttle it to regain some of the invested resources.

A colony frigate alone is enough to colonize moons/asteroid with no help from frigates/capships.  Just colonize the planet and immediately start building a turret as close to the moon/roid as possible between the planet and the siege frigate.  The turret will finish building and kill the siege frigate before it kills the planet.

Mmake sure the colony frigate is given orders to move on after colonizing- you should endeavor to make sure each colony frigate captures 2-3 planets before being destroyed.  You'll note that after their second jump colony frigates won't have enough AM to colonize- in this case you generally want to qeue up orders having the colony frigate go in a wide arc around the planet(this keeps it moving reducing the likelihood of it being killed while it regenerates AM)- you qeue up the orders because your attention will be needed elsewhere while the colony frigate regains AM.

If you see neutral extractors nearby, have a colony frigate go to capture them after it grabs it's first moon/roid- this will give it a relatively safe zone to recover AM and grab an early game boost to resources to boot.

Ideally you generally also want to build an early military lab to add a few corvettes to your expansion fleet.  If yous tarted with a colony capitalship you'll need their help to beat the defenders at any large planet(terran/desert) and if you started with a carrier capitalship you more likely will have corvettes expand in a different direction from your capitalships- perhaps wiping out the militias at the second stops your colony frigates are going to make so they don't have to kite the defenders around the well while they regain AM(as was discussed 2 paragraphs ago).

This probably comes out as more complicated then it actually is- all it really comes down to is trying to keep expanding in 2 or more directions at once(and learning to split your attention between the directions you are expanding), recognizing how much force you'll need to deal with a given level number of defending militia, and learningt o make good use of turrets to clean up after your capitalship moves on.

2).  learn all the counters:

you can get the reference chart here: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/379562

I'm not sure if it's been updated for rebellion, but there are only 2 new additions the first of which are corvettes, which counter capitalships, titans, and long range missile frigates, but are countered By non-titan AoE damage and flak frigates. The second new additions are titans which on average counter frigates as a whole, but are countered by bombers and corvettes

3).  learn to make use of the game's 4th unofficial resource: time

Starting up an economy fast matters a great deal as economies grow at a  greater then linear rate. likewise if you don't keep planetary population upgrades ahead of the current population(and let it get maxed) you waste time the population could be growing- which matters a great deal as population grows slow.

 likewise if you're going military and have a few frigate factories, don't underestimate the time it takes to build frigates- you should endeavor to keep your factories constantly spitting out frigates- every moment you aren't you waste some of their time and the enxt time you need to produce  alarge amount of frigates you will have to wait longer then if the factory had been building the whole time.

It's also worth noting you should focus on trying to keep up with your income- generally you don't want resources to "pile up" early game- there's always somewhere to put them where they will do more then they will sitting in your pocket.

4).  Learn to be frugal

In general you should be going very light on research and planetray upgrades.   For the latter you generally only buy population upgrades for planets and the occasional emergency facilities for planets that are likely to be under bombardment (novalith or conventional) soon.  One of the most difficult things is learning to minimize logistics upgrades and make the most out of the default logistics each planet comes with.

As for research in general the main research you actually bother with is prototypes- anything that lets you build a new type of ship or structure.  There are a few exceptions- the TEC gain a few good early economy techs(modular architecture & sometimes expedited permits) and the Vasari have phase missile research and late game trade-upgrade techs and some of the late-game TEC eco techs(like industrial juggernaut, development mandate, and pervasive economy) are worthwhile as well.  Likewise a number of the faction specific techs are worth researching.  But in general most of the "standard upgrade" research techs are luxuries that are only purchased if you have extra cash after buying the encessities or in the late game when you already have a large fleet.  For the entire early game though you're usually better off building more trade posts(for econ) or more ships(for military) then upgrading the existing ones.

In general early-mid game the only static defenses worthwhile are repair platforms- and 2 of those is enough to defend any planet with a frigate factory or 2 nearby- overinvesting in static defenses is a mistake a lot of new players make.  Another mistake they often make is to overinvest in capitalships rather then frigates- mroe capitalships mean they all level slower and high level capitalships are key- not to mention frigates give more firepower per cost then capitalships.

5).  learn to read the map

This is the hard one.  Games are won and lost by people's ability to look at the map, know immediately what direction to expand, and anticipate which way each of their neighbors will expand.  Start position makes the difference of whether it's prudent to go early-eco or start building a military fleet immediately.  in some scenarios you may be in a position likely to be hit by 2-3 enemies early on- recognizing this is key as you can decide to rush an early starbase- something that will hurt your economy, but allow you to survive the coming onslaught.

This one you can only really learn from experience.

This thread also has some useful replays and advice by players far

more skilled then I: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/437125

Anyway those are most of the key points skilled players generally tell new players to focus on.  I'm sure I've missed things, but you'll pick them up as you go- the most important thing is of course to have fun- while you're learning you don't have to be a mindless automaton based on my advice or anyone else- take advice as you like and try things out- everything you need you'll pick up in time one way or another, so the most important thing is to not burn yourself out.  Good luck and have fun!

Killing corvettes isn't the only advantage of the VL titan...desperation essentially means it has more raw firepower than any other titan in the game, so it's only real weakness is that it doesn't have good focus firing potential...like that really matters seeing as the Vasari have the best bomber with the best weapon in the game...

VR titan doesn't have any good focus firing capability either, but again, who cares...Vasari bombers with PMs rape...

Both titans basically have the best AoEs their are...VL titan then gets free resources from Maw, and spawns phase stabilizers (handy advantage, though not as useful with the SttC nerfs)...

They are no doubt the 2 best titans there are....Eradica is pretty good as well, but it depends on active abilities and isn't as durable as Vasari titan...

It's mainly that their weak frigates don't fit my play style...early Vasari usually requires good use of their superior caps or Orkies, a very different early game than TEC or Advent...

TEC and Advent aren't lackluster, rather, VR is grossly OP and VL is very very strong...I suppose it is a matter of perspective...

TEC arguably have the strongest early game...their corvette is the strongest, and their LF (the cobalt) is the 2nd strongest (disciple is slightly better)...they arguably also have the best LRF (illuminator is better when lots of flak/corvettes are on the field, but TEC LRMs fair better in other fights and have better focus firing, or FFing, potential)...

They also have best repair bays once you upgrade them, and their hoshiko is excellent for the early game...

Their best leading caps (sova and marza) can be brutal early game....Marza makes raiding planets go very fast, and can often bomb out planets before your opponent has time to react and drive off the cap...that it gets missile barrage at level 6 makes it a very lethal cap and puts your opponent in very tough situations once you get it to high levels...I've also seen double sova rushes with missile batteries been used to great effect, as the combo gives a lot of firepower....akkan also has best colonize ability, and is very good for eco or suicide players....

All in all, TEC make for very strong early game, both for eco and for frontliners...

Advent have best LF (the disciple) and the illuminator is really resilient once you have large numbers, but they aren't quite as strong as TEC....main early game advantage is that they can get culture at two labs, giving frontliners the unique option of immediately getting culture to prevent someone from grabbing nearby planets...

The only early game advantages Vasari have are ease at grabbing neutrals (since they use their scout ship) and the Orky...but Orky deployments require some skill, and the weak frigates they have can make their early game rough for someone who doesn't have a lot of experience...once you get to the mid and late game though, things start to really favor Vasari....their bombers with phase missiles are dominant, their SBs are awesome for defense, their titans are amazing, their cap selection is fantastic (kortul, skirantra, and space egg are all great each with awesome abilities), they have great mobility, and overseers allow them to protect their valuable assets far better than any other faction...

Early game you can win as anyone, though TEC is probably easiest...even mid and late game, it's not like VL just hit the "I win" button and it's game over....but if you face even a mid-level VL titan with overseers and kortuls, there is just nothing you can do to stop it...it will rape frigates, it will rape corvettes, kortuls can disable bombers, and the Vasari bombers will rape your own caps and titan...add on a bunch of little things, like how the space egg can prevent titans from jumping, Orkies can be deployed really fast, the list goes on and you quickly realize how powerful Vasari are once things get going....

And if you are VR, with an awesome titan, stronger phase missiles, and jumping SBs, it's basically a shooting gallery....

I think what he meant to say is that late game vasari *can* be overcome, be not easily and rarely in a direct confrontation.  At these stages of the game your best chance against them is likely some form of application of tactics or cheap-shot- hitting them where they aren't prepared to defend, blow up their supporting frigates with a wail/red button, whittle them down with superweapons, or perhaps a particularly well timed/positioned use of repulsion.

But by and large pretty much everyone is at a big disadvantage against avsari late game- and while they aren't the only race played, they probably are the strongest overall even considering their weak early game.

that's because the TEC comparatively speaking don't have a strong late game fleet.  They are by far the weakest late game faction- they excel at early game military pressure and fighting a war of attrition with their superior economy.

Late game tec fleet's don't win single decisive victories- they chip away at the enemy fleet and economy(while taking losses themselves)- but their superior economy leaves them better able to recover their losses.  If done right their opponents will gradually weaken until their economic advantage is so decisive the opponent can't really defend themselves.

 That's the late game theory in anycase- that said by and large the TEC shine most early-mid game, especially around the stage of the game hoshikos first hit the field.

Even if you don't eliminate opponents during this stage, a tec player should aim to widen the gap between their economy and their enemy's as much as possible during this stage which can be accomplished via economic developement and/or raids on nearby enemies.

you're not alone- the Vasari have a very weak start.  Finding neutral extractors for their scouts to grab is very important as it is their only real early economic advantage.

If you start with egg, colonizing planets as soon as siege frigates drop and mopping up the defenders with a turret is more useful then ever though since their rather meager extra colonization effect makes building build faster- and while we're at it, while worse then the other races, it's not utterly worthless as it does mean vasari can get all their extractors up a bit faster then advent.

But again, the vasari don't really have much in the way of actual early game economic advantages, so they really put your mastery of all the general tricks to fast expansion to the test.  effective use of turrets, combat frigates, and colony frigates working on colonizing 2-3 planets at a time is utterly key for the vasari to remotely keep up early game.

TEC is by and large the best faction to learn the fundamentals of the game on as most of their mechanics are pretty straightforward but very good at what they do(a good example being the ogrov, bane of all structures), and their stronger economy gives them a bit more margin for error in terms of how you spend your money then the other races have.  And honestly it's not until the late game their fleet starts falling behind- in most of the early to mid game the larger fleet reigns supreme- and TEC's relatively cost-effective frigates and strong early economy lend themselves well to this endeavor(not to mention hoshikos are the best early game support cruiser).

I see, thanks for that. Sounds like I should probably start off with TR then.

To be fair, Subjugating Assault depletes antimatter over time.

But you are right.... the Coronata is somewhat underrated. Supression Aure allows your lfeet to live a lot longer and even without it.... it does enough damage to give any other Titan a serious pause.

There's something fishy going on here and that's the question of micro and macro not being the topic here. They are many reasons why the survival of a level 1 Eradica can be cut short by the first shot of unity mass and a fleet. This is simply because the loyalist players macro and micro is alot better. 

It is only fair that we all test the advent loyalist thoroughly vs the advent rebels and find out the truth.

And, this is why we need an official troll list...

[quote who="Twilight_Storm" reply="24" id="3306867" What we really need is for the devs to give us a comprehensive explanation of what every ship/ability was designed to do.  That'd clear everything up quite nicely.
[/quote]

Hahahaha! Yeah, because "what it was originally meant for" is so much better than "what it can actually be used for". If people are using abilities in a way they're "not supposed to", so what? So long as it works, can you really blame them?