I understand Yarlen. I guess we will see in about 9 or so months what is possible and what is not. As long as we have some way of making open/semi-open connection maps, then I'll be more than happy.

Well, it sounds like one way or another it'll probably be possible via modding.

lol (to everyone), i think the confusion is one of mixed jargon. Open maps vs fully connected seems to be the root.

Fully connected means lots of phase lanes and open means no phase lanes. Highly connected maps (possibly fully connected maps) are almost guaranteed (as a mod option) and open maps are quite unlikely.

 

fully connected would be just fine with me

fully connected maps + invisible lanes = open maps.

I am quite happy with the idea of 'fully' connected customized maps with the invisible phase lane option on.

For the Star Wars mod, I'll probably have all the planets/asteroids in each star system 'fully' connected, but I'll only allow star to star phase lane travel for interstellar travel.

That means you can directly go to any star from any other star, but you can't directly go to a planet/asteroid without going to that system's star first.

I am also toying with the idea of maps with fully connected Star to Star travel like mentioned above. But for inner star systems, I would make a huge gravity well around the stars that includes a few planets and asteroids. This way, we would have 'fully' connected star to star travel, but 'open' connected inner star systems.

My only concern for 'open' connected inner star systems relate to Phase Space Inhibitors. As it is, Phase Space Inhibitors effect the entire gravity well they are located in. So, if star systems consist of only 1 gravity well, a single Inhibitor can stop everybody from phasing away. It would probably be more balanced if Phase Space Inhibitors used anti matter or had a coverage range. Still, 'open' connected inner star systems might just work out regardless.

This sounds like hugely cool... IMO it would be best if inhibitors weren't able to be built around a star (in it's gravity well) at all. Let's just say that it's gravity is far too strong for any inhibitor to be built...

Yeah, but we still need ships that can that have the Phase Space Inhibitor ability (think Rebel CC-7700 and Imperial Immobilizers and Interdictors). These ships will be necessary to accurately simulate a Star Wars galaxy.

So, with the above in mind, let's look at how star systems can be made.

Option 1: Every planet, asteroid and star in each star system is fully connected to each other. That means that you can get to any gravity well in that system from any other gravity well in that system. You would still only be able to travel to star-to-star when going from system to system.

Ships with Phase Space Inhibitors will work rather well in this type of system setup. Also, stars could become contested battlegrounds/interdiction ambush zones if one of the players is using ships that have the Phase Space Inhibitor ability (but we still won't allow facilities to be built around stars).

Option 2: Every star system consists of only ONE single super large gravity well around a star. Planets and asteroids are in relatively close orbit around that star IN the same gravity well. Also, there wouldn't be the tons of usable planets and asteroids in a single system as there is in the core game (but there would be far more total star systems on the map). Moving ships around within this type of star system would be by free/open movement. In short, this is probably the cooler way to go.

Problems with Option 2: As it is now, the Phase Space Inhibitor effect covers the entire gravity well they are in. So, to hold total blockade power in a single huge gravity well and greatly delay your opponent, all you need to do is build 1 Phase Space Inhibitor. Now enemies are stuck taking a lot of time moving through this big gravity well to reach and destroy your Interdiction station. This would suck. However, if Phase Space Inhibitors are moddable so they can be given a max range, then all is well.

Another issue with Option 2 is that it would take fleets longer to travel across these super sized gravity wells to reach their target or engage enemy fleets. So now, the different models ships and their max speeds/accelerations would actually become a tactical consideration. However, some of us would actually prefer this occur. So I am hard pressed to say if this is an advantage or disadvantage.

Basically, that sums up the problem with Option 2 map and Interdiction tech. Let's hope that a range is given to interdictor ships/stations. Both the core game and this mod would benefit from that change. But no worries here, even if that change isn't implemented, we will still be fine by using option 1.

Hmmm, the Star Wars custom map is going to be interesting. It looks like I'll need to make AT LEAST 25 star systems total in order to have all the major locations present. If the hardware can support it, I'll try to include 30-35 systems total.

The good news is that each of these star systems will be far less hardware intensive for PCs than the standard game star systems. The Star Wars systems only need to have a few planets/asteroids (and maybe moons and gas giants) per system.

If at all possible, I am going to use option 2 for the star system layouts (see above post for details of option 2). A single huge super gravity well that encompasses each system is far more faithful to Star Wars than what the core game so far offers.

I just really hope that Ironclad allows us to 1) make ships that can have the Phase Inhibitor ability and 2) be able to mod the effective range of Phase Inhibitors so they don't encompass the entire gravity well.

I seriously doubt the inhibitors have a range atm. By the descriptions I'd guess it's just a variable per system (has one or doesn't have one). Perhaps it would be possible to mod one in if there are any ships that already have ANY kind of effective range (if such a thing exists in Sins) and you could change its effect with the inhibitor's...

Otherwise it would be great to see so many star systems. It would really give a galactic feel. I hope my comp will cope.

Yeah, it seems extremely unlikely that Phase Space Inhibitors will be given a range to their effect. It will almost certainly be a hard coded gravity well wide effect (easiest for Ironclad to implement).

BUT, it also seems likely that Phase Space Inhibitors (especially ship mounted versions) will be able to have an AM cost. As it is now, a lot of platforms have AM stats, but the developers haven't bothered to implement ability cost/timers into the game yet. Remember, Beta 1 is about compatibility.

So, I can make super sized gravity well stars that have the planets included. To help reduce the power of Phase Space Inhibitors inside huge gravity wells, I will just set a high AM cost and lower timer to the ability.

I have just recently started playing the beta 2 version of this game and have been watching its development for awhile. This game is amazing from what I have seen, it is like homeworld 2 on steriods.

But of course with a game like this, it brings up many interesting concepts, meaning mods. This game can be formed easily to many sci-fi universes. However I desire a star wars mod above else, except for a babylon 5 mod.

As the first post stated, what factions? units? all that for a star wars mod.

Well, the most interesting era of the star wars saga has to be the New Jedi Order. Even though it was a long book series, it was kinda short. However, what it does give us is three major empires that have power.

The 3 major sides would be:
1. Imperial Remnent
2. New Republic
3. Yuuzahn Vong.

Plus if you wanted more, you can even through in the Chiss, the CSA and the Ssi-Ruuk.

As for units, the main problem that might exist is that I dont know how many ships a side can have. As i've seen so far in the beta, theres a very limited bar with not much space on it, I dont know if it can be expanded or not, but since the star wars galaxy has so many different types of ships, you might not be able to fit them all.

As some of you read and maybe played the Homeworld 2 SW: warlords mod, that didnt have that problem as I could see. It is by far the most impressive mod ive seen.

My only wish is to see a similar version with this game.


Like I said, since were throwing out ideas on what type of starwars mod to make, my vote is a New Jedi Order mod with the Major factions I listed and hopefully the smaller ones as well, and as many units as you can throw in the game.

MMM, scaling might be the most major issue for this game. ISDs are 1,600 meters in length, a Lamba Class shuttle is 20 meters, a TIE fighter 6.3 meters, and a SSD is 19 kilometers. Plus, ISDs have 8 Ion cannons which have long streaks of fire (going from the Rouge Squadron game), and all the laser fire in SINS is itty bitty. I don't know what the measurments of the ships in SINS are, but I seem to remember that the missile frigate was 210 meters. I don't know what you could use for frigates in the mod (you could take the Ventor or Accumalator class ships or Victory class).

INCLUDE THE VONG AND/ OR CHISSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!! (the chiss are better because they aren't stupid like the regular empire, the hide their bridge in their ship.)

I guess we'll have to see how well scaling works in the final version.

Playing around with the code a bit, I have been able to get some slightly systemish type stars to spawn [Thanks Multi for showing us that bit], but the problems still remain that they're all clustered around a central star and that they're in a perfect spiral patern around that one star. There was mention of fixing this in the coming patch, but we'll just have to wait and see.

SoaSE has the ability to customize the development of ships as they gain experience. I was considering if we will want to use some of this with the Star Wars mod.

I don't think we should allow Star Wars ships to get levels of experience. However, we could allow Cruiser sized ships a single Special Ability choice when first constructed (maybe 2 abilities for the largest ships).

For example, you've completed construction of your first Imperial Star Destroyer. Right away, you have the choice of a single special ability for your new Cruiser. You could choose amongst the following Special Abilities:

1. Imperial Legion: Works like Colonization in that you can take over a planet that you blast into submission.

2. Heavy Fighters: Works like a combo of Heavy Fighters and Increased Strike Craft Production Speed. The logic is that instead of having an Imperial Legion on board, you use the ship space to hold more and better supported strike craft.

3. Flak: Works like the KOL flak, in that you've had more anti strike craft weapons/power generators mounted on your Star Destroyer at the expense of Imperial Legions or more fighters.

4. Targeting Uplink: Additional sensors, sensor power generators and fleet network communication systems allow this ship to aid all ships in the fleet with their targeting.

5. Improved Shields: Additional power generators increase the effectiveness of this ships shield system.

6. Raze: Enlarged Hangar houses space to ground rocket system for taking down planets at an increased rate.

Anyway, the list goes on but I think people get my point.

Sure, you could argue that the Galactic Empire was very much into standards and would not allow that kind of customization. But I think we will be doing the mod based on EvilleJedi's Post Battle of Endor time frame. In the fiction, after the Emperor's death, there were plenty of cases of ship customization.

As for the Rebels, they were all about customization in their individual ships.

Actually, no. Ships can hyperspace anywhere they want to. Hyperspace routes in Star Wars are just safe paths from one place to another (so you don't jump into a star or something).

Oh no not the new jedi order. No one wants to have an eclipse ssd, Death Stars, soviereign ssd, galaxy gun and sun crusher? The Empire in its heyday had so many interesting ships. Who dosent wanna crush the rebellion? Or at least lose to them without ridicoulus things like rd d2 blowing up Byss, stopping the emperor from ever returning, destroying the eclipse 2 and the galaxy gun by hacking into the eclipse.

Sorry dude, but this is going to be about research, fleets, tactics and strategy. We'll also throw in some balancing for good measure.

So, that means no Sun Crushers (aka: the ship that can only be destroyed by black holes and can take out star systems with one shot), and no freaking Jedi scum....hehe, I guess you can tell I have an affinity for the Galactic Empire (some might say my user photo also suggests that).

Lastly, I've been worrying whether or not we would be able to include Interdiction ships like the Immobilizer and Interdictor classes. Happily, Phase Space Inhibitors are already part of the game, and I just didn't realize it till today. The Sova Carrier Embargo Special Ability already stops trade/refinery ships from jumping. It can't take much to designate additional ship types to deny Phase Space to.

That's great! But it's still grav-well-wide effect, right?

OMG ROFL ROFL ROFL! Thats FUNNY!

Wow, there's a lot of confusion in this thread about what is/isn't possible with Sins *right now*. The quick answer is that it's easy to make a ship with a phase inhibitor that has a limited range, or that affects friendlies as well as enemies, or that costs antimatter to use, or that has a limited duration, or that forces the ship generating the field to be immobile, or many other variations on the effect.

I've been thinking of writing up a document with everything I've learned about how Sins abilities work, but it's all changing so fast that it hasn't seemed to be worth the trouble.

My mod has been my testing ground and demonstrates some of the available possibilities, from kamikaze drones to guns that have a chance to disable to "troop transports" that can invade enemy planets.

As Therax, and possibly others, are discovering, the ability system is practically a language that allows you to do some pretty powerful stuff

Limited Phase Inhibitor range...YES!!!!!!! This is huge news.

I was planing on making a custom Star Wars map with all the significant star systems. I will be making star systems that only have a single huge gravity well around the star, and 1 or more planets/asteroids within that single gravity well (in orbit around the star).

The only concern I had about this kind of map was whether or not I would be able to adjust the ranges on the Phase Inhibitors. I didn't want them to cover the entire gravity well they are located in, as they would be too powerful in the above type of map system.

Back to the OP, and the thread start, It's all about the timeline! Which Star Wars is it? Is it going to be the one of Luke Skywalker vs Darth and Emperor or the young/not so young Ani? The clone wars? The Sith wars? The time chosen will also choose the particpants.
There's also a 'how big' but I think this will be a non-issue. Thanks to a great game engine. Imagine taking the time to put every known planet in the SW universe in.. *boggle* But once it's done won't it be sweet!!! Even the outer rim for the larger maps!
Lastly, we all know we can't wait to send some Star Destroyers after our enemys.
Who knows, maybe a Death Star ?? That's dreaming -- but damn I'd sure love to push the button on it and make my enemy cry.