Knowing Your Limits

Culdcept Inspirations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culdcept_Saga
Greetings again Demigods,

   Now since much of the game's mechanics are pure speculation at this point, I decided to create this article in an effort to begin, what could be, the source pool for many of my suggests that may come when Beta begins. Since I've no solid idea on how the game is played, I won't take any liberties in assuming anything - but let it be known I have some interests towards making a Demigod more and more custom. Abilities to build your army and character before your begin will allow you to know your limits, and if you are skilled enough - your enemies. The basis of this concept comes from a game I'm sure few people here really have ever heard of, Culdcept. This is a card game, and there is a Demo on XBOX Live for those wanting to get an idea of what I mean, at least in an extremely limited mean.

   What captivates me so much about Culdcept and why I still return to playing it over months and months of owning the game, is the fact that there are near limitless posibilities in how you build your character and deck. But these possibilities are extremely well balanced, and this is mainly done so through the use of the Elements system. For those of you who haven't played this game, allow me to break down how some of these game play methods can be translated into something that may or may not work with Demigod (that is largerly for the Developers to decide). So this post is for the community, and I do not mind in the slightest if nothing I mention goes unheard.

   The power of your player in Culdcept is in the form of cards you collect, with 382 cards you can collect from victories or defeat in battle, you can amass power. Cards are broken into several catagories.. Monsters, Spells, and Items are the major branches, and within each there are different types.

Monsters: Nuetral, Fire, Water, Earth, Wind
Spells: Target Character, Target Monster, Target Terrain, Target All
Items: Weapons, Armor, Scrolls

   The standard deck is 50 cards, and once you collect them all you have power to make some very interesting decks. Naturally, Fire & Earth cimpliment each other and Water & Wind do the same. Neutral compliment each other, and on rare occasions other elements are complimented by Neutral. But this isn't the point, what is important is that you can build your own deck consisting of monsters, spells, and items. This is what defines you and your strategy, and through these cards you build and amass your army and strengthen your player and terrain.

   So, how does this relate to Demigod? Well simple, to a degree (it depends greatly on what you're mean is simple). Let us say I'd like to create myself a custom Demigod who plays the way I want, with units that I feel are unique to how I want my army to be defined. Long before I even enter a game, offline I can choose a Demigod and what type of element which relates to it - for example Queen of Thorns is Earth and Torch Barrer is Fire. If I decided to create a Demigod based on Queen of Thorns, I could very well choose to units for my army which relate to that element, but I won't be limited to that!

   Clearly Earth element creatures could get a boost when near the Demigod, but your Demigod can not be everywhere at once - so perhaps other plans of attack are in order. Using perhaps a points system, I can design a tech tree of units that I want to appear and when. I could desire Winged Angels (Air), plent creatures (Earth). and perhaps some giants (Earth). These could be facets I want to define my custom army, and now I can spend point elsewhere - such as on spells and items for my Demigod that I'd also like to appear as I level up.

   The more I play the game, the more units I have access to, including spells, armors, fortifications, etc. This could be linked with Impulses achievements, and could be a desirable urge to keep playing. Each battle, win or lose, you gain more units. Like in Culdcept, I'm limited by how many of the same unit I've collected. For instance I may not be able to make a giant swarm of angels at first, but after playing several matches I've accquired enough angels to have a whole flock of them. This is all a question of balance and how you'd want to balance, surely I can not have a whole army of angels - no! Even in Culdcept they limited you to bringing in only four of the same card, that way you would not have an entire army of just one, single powerful unit.

   The more Rare and the more powerful, the more limited you are in bringing that unit, and the more costly it is! I could decide to have an entire army of small, whimpy cannon fotter soldiers that I could just keep throwing at the enemy's Demigods over and over and over. This would allow me time to act as I keep them busy stuck in the swarm of endless masses. But this could be countered by powerful AoE abilities that the player may have brought along, which opens up another can of worms.

   This system will eventually require good players to bring various things to counter other players, allowing them to plan ahead and keep things 'just in case' another player decides to go one way, they can act enough. But it's all based on how much they've pre-planned their tactics well before the game has even begun. I could utilize spells which make my units immune to knock back, and my enemy has utilized a large force of creatures which specialize in knock back. In order to counter me, he could have something up his pocket that cancels all immunities; furthermore, I could cancel his ability to cancel my ability by using a dispel or addition 'anti-magic' protection which wards off enemy spells for a limites time.

   So the back and forth tug a war will continue until the person with quickest wits outsmarts the enemy by pressing whatever advantages they have, and this could all come down to what you decided to bring in the first place.

   Indeed, this would be madness to balance, but it'd give players a real feeling of their limits. This would also make a player feel as they are have designed their army, and it is their unique and personalized strategy. I'm not saying making Demigod a Culdcept RTS, but certainly there are features in the game which have made it most replayable - and that is the design element to the army. Keeping standard units for standard Demigods is certainly easier to balance, but eventually people learn how they work and press their advantage merely by common knowledge. Giving the player more powerful to build their army and become more like a Demigod of their choice leaves plenty of room to make each and every game a unique experience that is sure to make each side think differently.

   Instead of the run-of-the-mill build-tier spree, people will have to test their enemy's might before knowing their full potential, making for some longer and more intense games that are sure to more memorable and epic in many ways.
2,237 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top
While that is an amazing idea (AND POST!) I think demigod is not quite going that way, but that'd be one hell of a game if it did.

Not that I'm endorsing it, I prefer games of pure skill, not ones that I have to play a lot to have any chance of being on par
Reply #2 Top
EA is currently working on a card based game similar to Demigod. I'll stick with the real Demigod :).
Reply #3 Top
EA is currently working on a card based game similar to Demigod. I'll stick with the real Demigod .


Especially since EA is making it lol, sorry, im very anti EA. Im pretty much against flooding the world with titles and only making 5% of them decent. and thats decent at best..

However! as for the topic post. As much as id love a skill system that in depth I would rather go about it a different way, such as like 5 different talent trees or something lol. the key would be balancing out all 5 talent trees so you don't see a repeat every game. or possible hybrid trees. Although there likely wont be any trees, and the game is going to be pretty str8 forward "you know what he can do, He knows what I can do.." lets see whos better
Reply #4 Top
Why have multiple trees when you can have more demigods? Yes the hybrid things is a cool side effect but remember your choosing these skills in game so while your picking your skills from a large list (and there are already 8 demigods to know all the trees) the other demigods will be smacking you around.
Reply #5 Top
Ah, what if the ability to make your own custom army was already built into game naturally, each and every game? You could create a list of pre-set favorites of course which could be based on your favorite tactics, but aside from that you can still open up various techtrees and choose new paths, or try new things without having to collect anything.

So you could still in fact make a fully custom army that will be hard to predict, but do it as you level up, and even before the game by making 'favorites' listings of your battle plans.
Reply #6 Top
Ya, im just sayin mooeythecow lol that some customization would be nice, wither its the hero or a wide item selection or something, so you can have like an ace card, somethin that may throw your opposite off and cause u to win the game.
Reply #7 Top
I think thats going to be in items that and skill leveling that is abnormal, and for generals unit selection.
Reply #8 Top
OrleanKnight, that is a very in-depth game you have proposed. I think something like that would have strategists over the moon considering the amount of customisation they can do before the game even starts, however, I wonder how newb friendly that game would be. I think it's a great idea, but I feel that it caters to a niche market and therefore wouldn't get a large amount of sales (that's just an observation, I could be wrong. I wonder how many ppl bought Culdcept).
Reply #10 Top

Culdcept sounds like a clone of Magic: The Gathering. I hope there will be no "account progression" in Demigod. I don't like to collect/farm something before playing the real game.

Also, it's much harder to balance the game with custom heroes so don't expect something like that in a competitive game.

Reply #11 Top

Magic: The Gathering was the first thing I thought of too :D

 

I doubt we will see custom unit/demigod builds. It will all be predefined. At least when the beta starts.

 

I like customization too, but Demigod is not a 1vs1. I don't see it like that. Team-play will define this game and there is no point in having tons of ways to customize your hero when in the end there is nothing balanced at all just because of the huge number of players on  such small arenas ( because the arenas are small ... from what I can tell after seeing the trailer and screens ) .

 

I think that having such a small battlefield, gigantic units, and "powerful" aoe spells negates the poss of being able to customize anything. I reckon that a hole team ( @clan ) will go building their heroes mainly on aoes and tanks ( seeing here giants etc. ) . That will be just screwed up.

It's hard to transform a card-game into a rts or action game. Have you see Yu-gi-Oh, Duel Masters, Magic:The Gathering transformed into a good rts ? No. Why ? Because the concept behind card-games is that you have time to think your turn. And you don't have acces to all your cards at the same time as will happen in Demigod. As I said - the terrain is way I can't see customization built-in.

As I debated with innociv, I don't think we will see 2 same demigods in the same match just because demigods are unique. There is only one Queen of Thorns and she has a predefined skill tree from which the player can, of course, choose during the game.

I don't think that we will be able to pick a model of a demigod, choose his skills and if a general, choose the troops we will be able to summon besides the ai controlled troops that spawn from the castle.

 

I reckon there will be a fairly large number of demigods from which we will be able to choose. I reckon we will be able to suggest other concepts of demigods before the end of the first beta, but I don't see a way to pre-customize in any way your demigod.

Reply #12 Top

But hey there are some wc3 based rts that do allow for custimization, whos to say that a mod maker dosn't create such a mod for demigod?

Reply #13 Top

Card Shuffle wc3 map is awesomeeeee.

I want one for Demigod.