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Entrenchment Beta 3 Change Log

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Entrenchment Beta 3 Change Log

from Sins Forums

Get ready for phase 3 of the Sins of a Solar Empire: Entrenchment beta!

IMPORTANT: You MUST fully uninstall Sins of a Solar Empire & Entrenchment before updating to Beta 3!

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Gameplay / Balance:
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-New Manifest System allows for original Sins and Entrenchment to coexist (see below for great new mod capabilities).
-Added quick start game option that starts you w/ all resource extractors, a cap factory, 2 scouts and full population upgrades on your home planet in addition the frigate factory you'd normally get.
-Capital planets are now much more valuable and tuned to prevent stalls in the early game.
     -Capital Planet PlanetUpgrade now grants bonus metal and crystal income.
     -Normalized all home planet credit income.
-General AI improvements:
     -Can be in attack state now factors in allies helping.
     -Retreating should be somewhat better (this is part 1 of a whole new revamping of this system).
     -Fix ogrovs not coming into attack against regular structures.
     -Fix AI interpreted threat values of structures and starbases.
     -AI attack assembling pathfinding now checks if their is a path that doesn't have a heavily defended planet (in addition to enemy planets).
     -Fix AI building so many antifighters.
     -AI can now assemble around a starbase instead of just empty space or orbital defense.
     -Fixed AI not lining up properly when assembling.
     -AI will now capture and defend neutral resource nodes.
     -AI now longer counts starbases for countering if the starbase isn't constructed.
     -Improve AI's use of mine clearers.
     -Improve default mine clearing behavior of scouts (most importantly, even if you haven't turned on autoattack, a scout in mine clearing mode will still attack mines). (Still broken in some situations)
     -Colonize, build starbase, and capture resource missions now consider mines when determining if a given planet is too dangerous or not for the AI.
     -Fix AI over-estimation and infocard display of capital ship weapon damage as they level up.
     -Added basic AI building of Vasari and Advent mines. More to come.
     -Improved AI starbase placement.
     -Lots of minor stuff and more to come.
-Carrier cruisers now suffer a strike craft build rate penalty if enemy combat units are in the same gravity well.
     -Exposed the infocard value for build rate penalties to be on the cruiser in addition to the squadron itself.
-All races' anti-strike craft frigate weapon range increased 20%.
-All races' weapon platform structure's attack type changed from ANTIMEDIUM to CAPITALSHIP.
-ANTIVERYLIGHT attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 50% to 35%.
-ANTILIGHT attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 50% to 35%.
-ANTIMEDIUM attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 75% to 50%.
-ANTIVERYHEAVY attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 75% to 65%.
-COMPOSITE attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 100% to 75%.
-CAPITALSHIP attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 100% to 75%.

Ogrov Torpedo Cruiser:
-Front bank damage reduced from 1000 to 900.
-Fleet supply cost increased from 8 to 12.
-Resource cost increased from 490/100/70 to 620/130/95 credits/metal/crystal.
-Max hull points increased from 580 to 610.
-Max shield points increased from 275 to 295.

Solanus Adjudicator:
-Front bank damage increased from 50 to 55.
-Resource cost increased from 1100/210/135 to 1210/235/160 credits/metal/crystal.

Orkulus star base
-Stabilize Phase Space duration increased from 75 to 240 secs.
-Stabilize Phase Space cooldown increased from 90 to 320 secs.
-Pulse Gun damage increased from 146 to 186 for all banks.
-Disintegrator weapon damage type changed from AntiHeavy to AntiModule.
-Phase Missile damage increased from 300 to 325 for all banks.
-1st level of Assault Systems upgrade time reduced from 60 to 25 secs.
-new 3rd level of Assault Systems upgrade now grants 30% weapon damage increase to the star base.

Antorak Marauder
-Stabilize Phase Space is no longer a channeling ability, but is still interruptable.

TEC Hangar platform
-Flak turret upgrade weapon range increased from 3250 to 4500.

Advent Homing Mines
-No longer decelerate during their approach to target just prior to detonation.
-Now deal 150 of their 850 damage to all enemy targets within a radius of the primary target.
-Deployment radius increased by ~100%
-Target acquisition and loss ranges increased slightly to account for the deployment radius increase potentially placing mines further from the most common vertical movement range of targets.

TEC Proximity Mine
-Damage reduced from 1200 to 1000

Sivuskras Ruiner
-Explosive Mine damage reduced from 1200 to 1000
-Mines deployed per ability use increased from 6 to 10 (cost rebalanced to be roughly the same per mine)
-Mine deployment radius increased by ~100%

-Adjudicator is now able to fire when saved games are loaded.
-Fix starbases attacking before constructed (likewise with a variety of other structures).
-Mine placement changed so that they are more tightly clustered about the area in which ships are most likely to travel.
-Reduced starbase build and upgrade time modifier in hostile gravity wells from 2.5x to 2.25x
-Fixed an exploit with Pervasive economy and refunding.
-Area of effect repair abilities no longer autocast on undamaged, partially built structures.
-Subversion will now end if its planet becomes owned by friendly empires.
-Friendly units destroyed by a friendly Argonev's Last Resort ability no longer grant experience to friendly capital ships.
-Star bases are now affected by orbit body specific effects such as the antimatter charging at stars.
-Fixed bug where research prerequisites that included subjects your race did not have access to were evaluated as being satisfied instead of not. (Mind control bug)
-Removed unintended weapon on Vasari Hangar platforms.
-Dense core and porous core exclusive.
-Mine deployment through abilities now fails out at the appropriate places if the mine limit in the gravity well has been reached.
-Autocast for Vasari and Advent mines added.

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Graphics:
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-Reduced flair points Vasari orbital cannon.
-Fixed angle of approach of Advent meteors.
-Clutter reduction on shield projector effect.

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Sound / Music:
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-Entrenchment vocals pass 1 added.
-New TEC Cobalt vocals.
-Fix for annoying TEC repair cruiser sounds.
-Fixed frequent "structures complete" audio for mines. Now only reports when each batch is complete.
-Ogrovs using correct sounds now.
-TEC starbase constructor has general order response now.
-Better meteor sounds.

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Networking / Multiplayer:
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-Fixed sync bug.

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User Interface / HUD:
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-Other players' silent pings are no longer visible.
-Fix Vasari cannon ability string being too long.
-Crew training research now shows the correct max trainable level.
-Shuffled some research subjects around to hook up more pre-reqs where they are logical and to better fill the space.
-Added Starbase lost event.
-Stats added for mines/starbases/starbase upgrades.
-PlayerRanking now accounts for starbases.
-Fixed tec mine placement radius.
-Single player Game speed buttons added to the HUD.
-Empire search function for starbases added.
-Starbases integrated into planet construction (i.e so you can do things like select a neutral or enemy planet and get access to your starbase's build menu).
-Tooltips for mini pirate window added.
-Strike craft squadrons belonging to star bases now appear in the bottom pip ring of a planet's icon group instead of one of the side ones.
-Fleet supply used by ships queued for construction now displays the correct amount in infocards (was always calculated correctly for simulation).
-Alt now shows you ship icons and all even in cinematic mode.
-Exposed the infocard value for build rate penalties to be on the carrier cruiser in addition to the squadron itself.
-Fixed assorted typoes and grammatical errors (thanks for the emails!)

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Modding:
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-Mine scuttle times are now data driven. (Exposing a lot more items for data driving is in progress).
-New Manifest System allows for stacking of mods. Priority of order is controlled from the mod option screen. Mods closer to the top of the list are higher priority. (Please stress this if possible as it was difficult to predict how you might want to combo mods)

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Misc:
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-Numerous crash fixes.
-More memory savings.

411,792 views 215 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

Awesome! No wonder my adjudicators weren't firing ....that was a bug lol.

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Admiral_Kiernyc, reply 1
Awesome! No wonder my adjudicators weren't firing ....that was a bug lol.
End of Admiral_Kiernyc's quote

 

lol, me too, I can still see them looking at that Vasari starbase, doing NOTHING!!! I was wondering what the crew was doing:

Guy 1: look, he's heading for that small moon

Guy 2: thats no moon, its a space station!!!

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top

This is exciting! I can't wait, but I also wish to tell you all to take your time, Don't rush it!

Good job, guys. :thumbsup:

 

 Fujuki :ninja: :moo:

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

Man i am excited about this.

Can't Wait.

Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top

Looks great!  One quick question: I was wondering if these bugs are fixed?

 

  1. The current version crashes if a starbase gets attacked while it's under construction -- I thought I heard this was going to be fixed, but it's not in the changelog, so I'm not sure what's up.
  2. The Advent meteor ability doesn't do any damage to ships and does minimal damage to planets (it looks so impressive I bought it several times before I realized it wasn't actually doing anything :grin: ).  I'm assuming that at least the ships one is not intended.
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting lambdaman, reply 5
Looks great!  One quick question: I was wondering if these bugs are fixed?

 


The current version crashes if a starbase gets attacked while it's under construction -- I thought I heard this was going to be fixed, but it's not in the changelog, so I'm not sure what's up.

The Advent meteor ability doesn't do any damage to ships and does minimal damage to planets (it looks so impressive I bought it several times before I realized it wasn't actually doing anything ).  I'm assuming that at least the ships one is not intended.
End of lambdaman's quote

Both fixed. All the crashes were wrapped up under the Misc entry.

Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top

Seems silly change, you now have to retreat carriers, and possibly your whole fleet, but with entrenchment retreating from starbases is a bad idea.  Carriers will become a dead weight then?  Any deadweight unit will be toss out of the fleet and replaced by flak probably.

Also what is the point of further neutering damage against structures? It might get to a point where ti will be impossible to take down a single frigate factory in early game.

Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top

Seems silly change, you now have to retreat carriers, and possibly your whole fleet, but with entrenchment retreating from starbases is a bad idea. Carriers will become a dead weight then? Any deadweight unit will be toss out of the fleet and replaced by flak probably.
End of quote

 

Carriers are currently more than (a bit) OP, according to the concensus on the forums.  Now, how far OP hey happen to be is up to discussion, but a recent test showed that they are almost certainly OP (one player could use carriers, other restricted himself.  Even though he controled a far supperior strategic position, his carrier restriction prevented him from winning against the player using carriers).

Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Astax, reply 7
Seems silly change, you now have to retreat carriers, and possibly your whole fleet, but with entrenchment retreating from starbases is a bad idea.  Carriers will become a dead weight then?  Any deadweight unit will be toss out of the fleet and replaced by flak probably.

Also what is the point of further neutering damage against structures? It might get to a point where ti will be impossible to take down a single frigate factory in early game.
End of Astax's quote

 

Those are not silly changes, they are legitime ones, this might make people think twice before spamming carriers, with these modifications, carriers will lose some of their charm, and thats good, I can't wait to test this, when can I download beta3?

PTW, thanx for increasing the supply points of torpedo cruisers form 8 to 12, I would have prefer something like 16, but +4 is still good. Dropping the damage from 1000 to 900 is also nice.

Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Blair, reply 6

The current version crashes if a starbase gets attacked while it's under construction -- I thought I heard this was going to be fixed, but it's not in the changelog, so I'm not sure what's up.

The Advent meteor ability doesn't do any damage to ships and does minimal damage to planets (it looks so impressive I bought it several times before I realized it wasn't actually doing anything ).  I'm assuming that at least the ships one is not intended.

Both fixed. All the crashes were wrapped up under the Misc entry.
End of Blair's quote

 

 

Sweet, thanks for the reply.  :)

Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top

The anti-structure change worries me a bit too, as a Vasari player.  If you're neutering the anti-structure damage of ships, AND increasing starbase damage-dealing abilities, then the ability to defeat starbases using standoff weapons (torpedoes or strike craft) becomes even more important.  And since the Vasari don't get a torpedo ship, you make it even more of a necessity to build our own starbases within each well before assaulting its defenses.  (Against another Vasari player, that's not really an option either, as the defending SB will move into range and blow away mine before it ever gets built.)  And while it's great that the first Vasari weapon upgrade now builds more quickly, it's totally overshadowed by the very long build times changed in 2.5.

Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top

The vasari have their starbase, remember. With the faster build times and better attack... then it becomes even more advisable to use their starbase as an offensive platform.

 

I must say, this new patch is a dream come true. \o/

Thank you guys for the incredible work!

Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top

Maybe I'll actually see some online Entrenchment players when this thing releases?

Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Astax, reply 7
Seems silly change, you now have to retreat carriers, and possibly your whole fleet, but with entrenchment retreating from starbases is a bad idea.  Carriers will become a dead weight then?  Any deadweight unit will be toss out of the fleet and replaced by flak probably.

Also what is the point of further neutering damage against structures? It might get to a point where ti will be impossible to take down a single frigate factory in early game.
End of Astax's quote

I need to take a chill pill. EDITED for flaming. I apologize guys. x_x  

But Astax is wrong. Carriers really do have a balance issue and I think this beta change is the first step to addressing it. (This still doesn't address it significantly)

Now I'm hopefully for a very slight Flak increase and a Flak turrent on most capital ships next. 

Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top

All seems good eccept from antiveryheavy and capitalship attake types getting a nerf to modual damage. Making them even weaker.

Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting CreditSuisse, reply 14



Quoting Astax,
reply 7
Seems silly change, you now have to retreat carriers, and possibly your whole fleet, but with entrenchment retreating from starbases is a bad idea.  Carriers will become a dead weight then?  Any deadweight unit will be toss out of the fleet and replaced by flak probably.

Also what is the point of further neutering damage against structures? It might get to a point where ti will be impossible to take down a single frigate factory in early game.


Wow, I can't believe this guy is upset Carrier now can't instantly replace their Strike Craft. It's insane.

Carriers are more than (a bit) OP, and its hilarious how you claim the opposite. I guess in every society and every forum you have the iconoclasts who lurk in the shadows ready to spread total [censored]. 

People like Astax, It all adds to the insanity.  
End of CreditSuisse's quote

 

Dude, cant you say one thing nice without being a harsh bitter troll???:troll:

 

Now, back on topic. Great changes IC!!!!! Im am very curious how this Manifest System works.

Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top

one player could use carriers, other restricted himself. Even though he controled a far supperior strategic position, his carrier restriction prevented him from winning against the player using carriers
End of quote

The test was flawed - he had no units to kill the SC - so they got to pick his fleet apart while he went for the carriers. In keeping with his no SC test, he needed flak as well in his fleet. Plus he didn't know about the hoshikos removing his weapons....

Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top

The SC are not the problem, its the way the carrier deploys and host such SC. The only thing it will change is carrier spammer must prepare ahead of time and make sure they have an Option B if their horde of initial SC die a very flakish death. So people can still spam away, there is just a bigger price to pay if it doesnt work. And thats all the carriers ever needed. A punishment for failing the air support war.

Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top

Maybe I'll actually see some online Entrenchment players when this thing releases?
End of quote

When I get home from school I will but school internet sucks

 

Oh yeah for my original post:

Presents!!!! This and Empire: Total War demo!!! Presents!!! Yay thanks a bunch!

-Phalnax

Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top

Great changes to the carriers and awesome list. I dont understand the increase to the vasari sb tho.

Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top


-Carrier cruisers now suffer a strike craft build rate penalty if enemy combat units are in the same gravity well.
End of quote

This is actually a stealth buff to the Sova (TEC Carrier) - its level 6 ability (rapid manufacturing) is now much more useful. Maybe we'll start to see these in use now.

Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top

Wow no where did I say carriers are fine. Learn to read before you post.

I just find the method used to "fix" the problem silly.  Penalty to construction would be silly as carriers get a bonus to construction when they are under attack. The construction bonus is 50% when host is underfire I believe.  So i theory you have to go out of your way and not shoot the carriers for the penalty to even matter.  Also it does nto say what qualifies as enemy ship, for all you know it could be a refinery ship or trade ship.

Furthermore, the notes are very vague as to the nature of this change. I can only assume that this is some sort of flak buff.  Because if it is not, then the person with bigger carrier fleet would still win. And the other side would not be able to replace their fighters at all.  Currently side with 50% more fighters usually achieves air superiority rather fast.  Bombers would still be useless if there were any fighters around, even more so.  So really it wouldn't change a thing.

Now should this somehow buff flak to the old ways like back in 1.04 or eariler when using carriers meant automatic loss, then they will simply not get used at all.  I don't really care, I had this game over a year, and I played it from early BETA where scout spamming won, to later betas where lot of carriers won, to early releases where lot of HC or lot of LRMs won, to now where we are back to carriers again.  Doesn't bother me a bit.

Only thing that bothers me is all the people with emotional baggage attached to the topic.  No where in my post did I say "Carriers are fine now" or "Make carriers even stronger" but trolls are coming out of the woodwork attachign their emotional baggage claiming I am everything that is wrong with this game lol.  Just go take some Prozac or somehting, me calling a change "silly" is seriously not that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things.

 

 

Reply #48 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 5

 
You keep tempting with your almost-swearing.
End of Annatar11's quote

I dunno, I'm kind of with Kitkun on this one. I haven't played the beta, but the more I read the more I begin to drool.

 

[IE]Tal Gendron'nh

Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting CreditSuisse, reply 14

Quoting Astax, reply 7Seems silly change, you now have to retreat carriers, and possibly your whole fleet, but with entrenchment retreating from starbases is a bad idea.  Carriers will become a dead weight then?  Any deadweight unit will be toss out of the fleet and replaced by flak probably.

Also what is the point of further neutering damage against structures? It might get to a point where ti will be impossible to take down a single frigate factory in early game.

I need to take a chill pill. EDITED for flaming. I apologize guys.  

But Astax is wrong. Carriers really do have a balance issue and I think this beta change is the first step to addressing it. (This still doesn't address it significantly)

Now I'm hopefully for a very slight Flak increase and a Flak turrent on most capital ships next. 
End of CreditSuisse's quote

 

Gotta be honest i kind of liked the tone of the first one, not necessarily because i agreed, but because we're not a bunch of women on this forum. We should flame all day baby. It's stress relieving, and we don't dance around the subject. We shouldn't have to worry if the person we insult is going ot have a little online hissy fit, like what Astax just did.

I would apologize to using a cliche about females, but fuck it, lets get wild!

Yes, I'm promoting "flaming."

Reply #50 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Astax, reply 22
Wow no where did I say carriers are fine. Learn to read before you post.

I just find the method used to "fix" the problem silly.  Penalty to construction would be silly as carriers get a bonus to construction when they are under attack. The construction bonus is 50% when host is underfire I believe.  So i theory you have to go out of your way and not shoot the carriers for the penalty to even matter.  Also it does nto say what qualifies as enemy ship, for all you know it could be a refinery ship or trade ship.

Furthermore, the notes are very vague as to the nature of this change. I can only assume that this is some sort of flak buff.  Because if it is not, then the person with bigger carrier fleet would still win. And the other side would not be able to replace their fighters at all.  Currently side with 50% more fighters usually achieves air superiority rather fast.  Bombers would still be useless if there were any fighters around, even more so.  So really it wouldn't change a thing.

Now should this somehow buff flak to the old ways like back in 1.04 or eariler when using carriers meant automatic loss, then they will simply not get used at all.  I don't really care, I had this game over a year, and I played it from early BETA where scout spamming won, to later betas where lot of carriers won, to early releases where lot of HC or lot of LRMs won, to now where we are back to carriers again.  Doesn't bother me a bit.

Only thing that bothers me is all the people with emotional baggage attached to the topic.  No where in my post did I say "Carriers are fine now" or "Make carriers even stronger" but trolls are coming out of the woodwork attachign their emotional baggage claiming I am everything that is wrong with this game lol.  Just go take some Prozac or somehting, me calling a change "silly" is seriously not that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things.

 

 
End of Astax's quote

err what? I thought carriers under attack had their construction rate decreased? I was so sure the value was displayed in red and it would make more sense to me.

edit: oh, and now that dense and porous core are exclusive, did you make sure that applies for signal interference and conductive rails also? I had those on the same planet once, you know and it's the same thing, really.