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Entrenchment Beta 3 Change Log

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Entrenchment Beta 3 Change Log

from Sins Forums

Get ready for phase 3 of the Sins of a Solar Empire: Entrenchment beta!

IMPORTANT: You MUST fully uninstall Sins of a Solar Empire & Entrenchment before updating to Beta 3!

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Gameplay / Balance:
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-New Manifest System allows for original Sins and Entrenchment to coexist (see below for great new mod capabilities).
-Added quick start game option that starts you w/ all resource extractors, a cap factory, 2 scouts and full population upgrades on your home planet in addition the frigate factory you'd normally get.
-Capital planets are now much more valuable and tuned to prevent stalls in the early game.
     -Capital Planet PlanetUpgrade now grants bonus metal and crystal income.
     -Normalized all home planet credit income.
-General AI improvements:
     -Can be in attack state now factors in allies helping.
     -Retreating should be somewhat better (this is part 1 of a whole new revamping of this system).
     -Fix ogrovs not coming into attack against regular structures.
     -Fix AI interpreted threat values of structures and starbases.
     -AI attack assembling pathfinding now checks if their is a path that doesn't have a heavily defended planet (in addition to enemy planets).
     -Fix AI building so many antifighters.
     -AI can now assemble around a starbase instead of just empty space or orbital defense.
     -Fixed AI not lining up properly when assembling.
     -AI will now capture and defend neutral resource nodes.
     -AI now longer counts starbases for countering if the starbase isn't constructed.
     -Improve AI's use of mine clearers.
     -Improve default mine clearing behavior of scouts (most importantly, even if you haven't turned on autoattack, a scout in mine clearing mode will still attack mines). (Still broken in some situations)
     -Colonize, build starbase, and capture resource missions now consider mines when determining if a given planet is too dangerous or not for the AI.
     -Fix AI over-estimation and infocard display of capital ship weapon damage as they level up.
     -Added basic AI building of Vasari and Advent mines. More to come.
     -Improved AI starbase placement.
     -Lots of minor stuff and more to come.
-Carrier cruisers now suffer a strike craft build rate penalty if enemy combat units are in the same gravity well.
     -Exposed the infocard value for build rate penalties to be on the cruiser in addition to the squadron itself.
-All races' anti-strike craft frigate weapon range increased 20%.
-All races' weapon platform structure's attack type changed from ANTIMEDIUM to CAPITALSHIP.
-ANTIVERYLIGHT attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 50% to 35%.
-ANTILIGHT attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 50% to 35%.
-ANTIMEDIUM attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 75% to 50%.
-ANTIVERYHEAVY attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 75% to 65%.
-COMPOSITE attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 100% to 75%.
-CAPITALSHIP attack type's damage modifier vs Module armor type reduced from 100% to 75%.

Ogrov Torpedo Cruiser:
-Front bank damage reduced from 1000 to 900.
-Fleet supply cost increased from 8 to 12.
-Resource cost increased from 490/100/70 to 620/130/95 credits/metal/crystal.
-Max hull points increased from 580 to 610.
-Max shield points increased from 275 to 295.

Solanus Adjudicator:
-Front bank damage increased from 50 to 55.
-Resource cost increased from 1100/210/135 to 1210/235/160 credits/metal/crystal.

Orkulus star base
-Stabilize Phase Space duration increased from 75 to 240 secs.
-Stabilize Phase Space cooldown increased from 90 to 320 secs.
-Pulse Gun damage increased from 146 to 186 for all banks.
-Disintegrator weapon damage type changed from AntiHeavy to AntiModule.
-Phase Missile damage increased from 300 to 325 for all banks.
-1st level of Assault Systems upgrade time reduced from 60 to 25 secs.
-new 3rd level of Assault Systems upgrade now grants 30% weapon damage increase to the star base.

Antorak Marauder
-Stabilize Phase Space is no longer a channeling ability, but is still interruptable.

TEC Hangar platform
-Flak turret upgrade weapon range increased from 3250 to 4500.

Advent Homing Mines
-No longer decelerate during their approach to target just prior to detonation.
-Now deal 150 of their 850 damage to all enemy targets within a radius of the primary target.
-Deployment radius increased by ~100%
-Target acquisition and loss ranges increased slightly to account for the deployment radius increase potentially placing mines further from the most common vertical movement range of targets.

TEC Proximity Mine
-Damage reduced from 1200 to 1000

Sivuskras Ruiner
-Explosive Mine damage reduced from 1200 to 1000
-Mines deployed per ability use increased from 6 to 10 (cost rebalanced to be roughly the same per mine)
-Mine deployment radius increased by ~100%

-Adjudicator is now able to fire when saved games are loaded.
-Fix starbases attacking before constructed (likewise with a variety of other structures).
-Mine placement changed so that they are more tightly clustered about the area in which ships are most likely to travel.
-Reduced starbase build and upgrade time modifier in hostile gravity wells from 2.5x to 2.25x
-Fixed an exploit with Pervasive economy and refunding.
-Area of effect repair abilities no longer autocast on undamaged, partially built structures.
-Subversion will now end if its planet becomes owned by friendly empires.
-Friendly units destroyed by a friendly Argonev's Last Resort ability no longer grant experience to friendly capital ships.
-Star bases are now affected by orbit body specific effects such as the antimatter charging at stars.
-Fixed bug where research prerequisites that included subjects your race did not have access to were evaluated as being satisfied instead of not. (Mind control bug)
-Removed unintended weapon on Vasari Hangar platforms.
-Dense core and porous core exclusive.
-Mine deployment through abilities now fails out at the appropriate places if the mine limit in the gravity well has been reached.
-Autocast for Vasari and Advent mines added.

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Graphics:
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-Reduced flair points Vasari orbital cannon.
-Fixed angle of approach of Advent meteors.
-Clutter reduction on shield projector effect.

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Sound / Music:
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-Entrenchment vocals pass 1 added.
-New TEC Cobalt vocals.
-Fix for annoying TEC repair cruiser sounds.
-Fixed frequent "structures complete" audio for mines. Now only reports when each batch is complete.
-Ogrovs using correct sounds now.
-TEC starbase constructor has general order response now.
-Better meteor sounds.

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Networking / Multiplayer:
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-Fixed sync bug.

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User Interface / HUD:
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-Other players' silent pings are no longer visible.
-Fix Vasari cannon ability string being too long.
-Crew training research now shows the correct max trainable level.
-Shuffled some research subjects around to hook up more pre-reqs where they are logical and to better fill the space.
-Added Starbase lost event.
-Stats added for mines/starbases/starbase upgrades.
-PlayerRanking now accounts for starbases.
-Fixed tec mine placement radius.
-Single player Game speed buttons added to the HUD.
-Empire search function for starbases added.
-Starbases integrated into planet construction (i.e so you can do things like select a neutral or enemy planet and get access to your starbase's build menu).
-Tooltips for mini pirate window added.
-Strike craft squadrons belonging to star bases now appear in the bottom pip ring of a planet's icon group instead of one of the side ones.
-Fleet supply used by ships queued for construction now displays the correct amount in infocards (was always calculated correctly for simulation).
-Alt now shows you ship icons and all even in cinematic mode.
-Exposed the infocard value for build rate penalties to be on the carrier cruiser in addition to the squadron itself.
-Fixed assorted typoes and grammatical errors (thanks for the emails!)

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Modding:
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-Mine scuttle times are now data driven. (Exposing a lot more items for data driving is in progress).
-New Manifest System allows for stacking of mods. Priority of order is controlled from the mod option screen. Mods closer to the top of the list are higher priority. (Please stress this if possible as it was difficult to predict how you might want to combo mods)

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Misc:
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-Numerous crash fixes.
-More memory savings.

411,795 views 215 replies
Reply #76 from Sins Forums Top

ok, if i take my bombers & fighters and kill your cap ship in 10-15 seconds then what?

you're point is true to a limit of strike-craft, but at a point where every capital ship can be destroyed in 1 or 2 flybys it's ridiculous.

you could have 16 capitals and still lose badly if i just have enough carriers.



so you're argument is only valid for early / mid-game
End of quote

Um...NO.

Jam Weapons?  Magnetize?  Tele-push? 

Your SC won't get a chance to do anything, and the fighters I do have will RAPE your bombers.

Reply #77 from Sins Forums Top

lol first you're saying you don't need carriers to counter carriers and now your're fighers rape my bombers? which fighters? i thought you didn't have any? or do you mean the few coming from your cap ships?

 

really... in mid or late-game i usually have 30-50 carriers in my fleet with a ratio of 2/3 fighters and 1/3 bombers that can kill any cap ship within seconds.

even if you jam them shortly of push them away it will only delay the inevitable.

 

the carrier-nerf in beta 3 is a nice step and may help reducing the spam, we'll see how good it works in practice

 

 

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #78 from Sins Forums Top

lol first you're saying you don't need carriers to counter carriers and now your're fighers rape my bombers? which fighters? i thought you didn't have any? or do you mean the few coming from your cap ships?



really... in mid or late-game i usually have 30-50 carriers in my fleet with a ratio of 2/3 fighters and 1/3 bombers that can kill any cap ship within seconds.

even if you jam them shortly of push them away it will only delay the inevitable.



the carrier-nerf in beta 3 is a nice step and may help reducing the spam, we'll see how good it works in practice
End of quote

Dude, learn to read.  When did I say I don't have fighters??? 

Ugh...Besides, jam weapons last 30 seconds.  Tele-push zooms the SC across the grav well, and magnetize is just hilarious.  I sware, if you ever have 50 carriers against me, you will be crying at your worthless paper weights when all of the SC are dead and I might have lost 1 capital ship.  Last time I checked, 1 capital ship costs 50 fleet supply.  I can replace that.  It's not so easy to replace 600-1000 fleet supply of carriers (race dependant).

Here's my post, read it again: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/340339

Reply #79 from Sins Forums Top

What we have been saying the whole time is that a mixed fleet is what wins.  Yes you do need some carriers.  No one is denying their usefulness or need.  I have never seen anyone say "you are a complete and utter noob for building carriers".  No one is saying caps are invincible to bombers but generally bombers get wasted very quickly by fighters.  30-50 carriers is a late game example obviously and one would hope that by taht late game you would have a kol or halcyon for anti-strike craft that was at least level 3.  Someone jumps into well with those caps and a decent carrier fleet with fighters.  Your strike craft come to meet them and you target a cap in that fleet.  His fighters go attack your bombers, some of which are killed prior to arriving at enemy cap and the amount depends on distance between.  your fighters and bombers reach his cap in one clump.  He triggers said anti SC ability prior to biting it and you lose a large chunk of your SC in one barrage.  Even if you manage to successfully kill that cap, you have still lost a lot of your 30-50 carrier firepower while he retains the majority of his.  I still contend that the change is likely to make spam and rushing worse but time will tell. 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #80 from Sins Forums Top

You keep saying 50 carriers against a Cap , well duh.   Its a single ship , now try 50 carriers against 16  Kol, Halcyon or Marza or equivalent supply ratio of Caps with Anti-strikcraft ability.  They would kill all your fighters / bombers so fast its not funny.   50 carriers against any single ship would kill it in one or two passes, get real.

Reply #81 from Sins Forums Top


Get ready for phase 3 of the Sins of a Solar Empire: Entrenchment beta!

IMPORTANT: You MUST fully uninstall Sins of a Solar Empire & Entrenchment before updating to Beta 3!

End of quote

 

Looks like good changes, just a question about this. Will Impulse warn people about it? Or will it merrily upgrade and then make something that doesn't work correctly?

 

More importantly then in beta, if someone has vanilla sins right now and upgrades to Entrenchment post-release, will this be required then too?

Reply #82 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Silfarion, reply 12
The vasari have their starbase, remember. With the faster build times and better attack... then it becomes even more advisable to use their starbase as an offensive platform.
End of Silfarion's quote

I'm REALLY concerned about exactly how the Vasari are supposed to use their SB to take out entrenched defenses including an enemy SB.  Let's take the worst case:

Attacker: me, with a fleet

Defender: Vasari player with fully-upgraded combat starbase (3 weapon, 4 defense, 1 deflector), a phase stabilizer, and 25 points of static defenses (say, 5 hangars, 1 PJI, 3 missile turrets close to the planet)

 

How am I supposed to handle this?  With a starbase?  Okay, I bring in a colony ship with my fleet and immediately start to build my starbase.  The defending SB moves towards my position.

Two minutes later, my starbase has finished completion.  If, by some miracle, the partially-built SB survived two entire minutes of attack by a fully-upgraded defending SB (which probably reached the building SB within a minute), it's STILL outgunned by a huge margin (5:1 on offense, more like 8:1 on defense even before counting the deflector).  Even adding the disintegration beam only narrows the offensive gap to something like 2.5:1 or 3:1.  Making the disintegration use the anti-structure weapon class goes a ways towards balancing the offense a bit more, but it does nothing for the defense.  Giving it enough upgrades to survive a direct confrontation with a defending SB, even with fleet support, would take several more minutes (since none of the other upgrades had their times reduced).  And again, in the meantime it's being destroyed by the defending SB.  In other words, the SB was useless for taking out the defending SB, and my fleet had to take it out themselves.  Except whoops, ship-vs-SB damage was nerfed in this patch, so it takes a larger fleet than it used to to outgun a starbase.

So that's the worst case.  Let's take the not-so-worst, where the defender is a Terran or Advent player.  In these cases, you'll have time to upgrade the SB before going in since the defender's base can't move out to engage you.  It's still two minutes to build, and even with the reduction to 25s for the first weapon upgrade, you'll still have a base that doesn't have a prayer of survival against a fully-built defending base.  So you'll HAVE to sit there on the edge of the well, with a fleet defending your in-progress base, for a good TEN MINUTES until you have a base capable of standing toe-to-toe with a defending base.  Or, go in without it, in which case we're right back where we started, with the nerf to ship damage vs. modules.

You'll be able to use a partially-built starbase to draw fire away from your fleet, and help with the damage a bit, but this is a LONG way, balance-wise, from a purely stand-off weapon like the torpedo cruisers that can destroy a defending SB practically unassisted.

So to me, there are a few ways to fix this.

1> In 2.5 the build times for starbases were changed to depend on the ownership of the well, with enemy wells taking much longer than friendly.  This change needs to be removed for the Vasari, so that they can get their offensive starbases up and running quickly.  Or, to keep it balanced, INVERT it.  Make Vasari SBs build the fastest in enemy wells, and slowest in friendly wells.  It doesn't have to make sense... it'd just be balanced.

2> Vasari starbase upgrades, especially the core offense/defense ones, should build much more quickly, even if you have to raise their costs to balance.  What if, instead of 1800/275/150 and 60 seconds, they were 2700/425/225 and 30 seconds?  Now, I might only have to babysit the growing Vasari SB for 3-4 minutes before it's ready to smash the defenses for me, but it's more of a financial commitment to do so.  (Maybe have this cost/time change only apply in enemy wells?)

Reply #83 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 6

quoting post
Get ready for phase 3 of the Sins of a Solar Empire: Entrenchment beta!

IMPORTANT: You MUST fully uninstall Sins of a Solar Empire & Entrenchment before updating to Beta 3!


 

Looks like good changes, just a question about this. Will Impulse warn people about it? Or will it merrily upgrade and then make something that doesn't work correctly?

 

More importantly then in beta, if someone has vanilla sins right now and upgrades to Entrenchment post-release, will this be required then too?
End of Tridus's quote

that I doubt, since I guess it's only an issue because with the beta files became so intertwined that a clean upgrade is no longer possible. but I could of course be wrong, we'll see, but I never heard of an addon that requires the uninstallation of the original program.

Reply #84 from Sins Forums Top

but I never heard of an addon that requires the uninstallation of the original program
End of quote

You have now...

Reply #85 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Howdidudothat, reply 9

but I never heard of an addon that requires the uninstallation of the original program
You have now...
End of Howdidudothat's quote

entrenchment? not yet. if people who did not take part in the beta have to go through the same process, then I agree, but beta does not count or at least I didn't intend to have them included.

Reply #86 from Sins Forums Top

I would not assume that those who never had the beta would have to do a clean re-install. Fair game for those who did have the beta, though, since it just over-wrote everything. There's nothing to co-exist with because the original Sins did not exist at all with the previous betas.

Reply #87 from Sins Forums Top

I think what will happen is people will dock bombers until they have air supiriority. I also think flak will be much more useful. People will not be able to throw fighters around like they are in a parade. You will have to be careful with SC now. Its gonna produce more balanced fleet cause of the anti SC caps.With the flak buff and lower SC build rates you could get air control back maybe with just flak. It will force attacker to retreat till he brings in some frigs. While your carriers are in the next well rebuilding fighters at normal rate.

Reply #88 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Shadowhal, reply 8

I never heard of an addon that requires the uninstallation of the original program.
End of Shadowhal's quote

It's only a side effect of the beta. We didn't have the manifest stuff ready until now. This won't be an issue with the final release.

Reply #89 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Spatzimaus, reply 7
...I'm REALLY concerned about exactly how the Vasari are supposed to use their SB to take out entrenched defenses including an enemy SB...
End of Spatzimaus's quote

It's been said by others that in vanilla sins the Vasari have many advantages over the other races, especially from a multiplayer standpoint. It may be their intention to give a slight advantage to the other races to bring some balance to the force.

Besides, consider that vasari can completely skip defended gravwells with a Kostura cannon.

Reply #90 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MindsEye, reply 12
I think what will happen is people will dock bombers until they have air supiriority. I also think flak will be much more useful. People will not be able to throw fighters around like they are in a parade. You will have to be careful with SC now. Its gonna produce more balanced fleet cause of the anti SC caps.With the flak buff and lower SC build rates you could get air control back maybe with just flak. It will force attacker to retreat till he brings in some frigs. While your carriers are in the next well rebuilding fighters at normal rate.
End of MindsEye's quote

Yay! Knowing when to dock and when to launch might be back as one of the tactical options :)

Reply #91 from Sins Forums Top

When is new beta available?

Reply #92 from Sins Forums Top

but I never heard of an addon that requires the uninstallation of the original program
You have now...

entrenchment? not yet. if people who did not take part in the beta have to go through the same process, then I agree, but beta does not count or at least I didn't intend to have them included.
End of quote

 

Up until this point, Entrenchment has replaced the base game once it is installed. The new manifest stuff allows them to now operate separately, but there's no way to recover a clean Sins copy short of reinstallation if it's already been merged with the older Entrenchment betas. AFAIK people who have not yet installed Entrenchment shouldn't have to do anything special.

Reply #93 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MindsEye, reply 12
I think what will happen is people will dock bombers until they have air supiriority. I also think flak will be much more useful. People will not be able to throw fighters around like they are in a parade. You will have to be careful with SC now. Its gonna produce more balanced fleet cause of the anti SC caps.With the flak buff and lower SC build rates you could get air control back maybe with just flak. It will force attacker to retreat till he brings in some frigs. While your carriers are in the next well rebuilding fighters at normal rate.
End of MindsEye's quote

you know, I actually did that to a degree even before. when I had enough fighters, but some still heavy fighter presence by the enemy, I'd keep the bombers docked for a few mins to avoid them getting torn to pieces. once the clouds lifted a bit, I'd let them loose in a fury. nevertheless, I'd appreciate if it became more important a tactic now.

Quoting Blair, reply 13

Quoting Shadowhal, reply 8
I never heard of an addon that requires the uninstallation of the original program.

It's only a side effect of the beta. We didn't have the manifest stuff ready until now. This won't be an issue with the final release.
End of Blair's quote

I figured. was just trying to make my point to the others.

Reply #94 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting kryo, reply 17
Up until this point, Entrenchment has replaced the base game once it is installed. The new manifest stuff allows them to now operate separately, but there's no way to recover a clean Sins copy short of reinstallation if it's already been merged with the older Entrenchment betas. AFAIK people who have not yet installed Entrenchment shouldn't have to do anything special.
End of kryo's quote

I'm so glad I haven't been playing the beta since 5 days after it's launch.  I get to download Beta 3 without issue.

Procrastination is KING!

Reply #95 from Sins Forums Top

I have a somewhat puzzling question. If IC does not put new stuff on fridays and the new "release" date is next wednesday, then when are we getting beta 3, and say that we do get it today (one can hope) then is this going to be enough time to get the final ready by then?

Reply #96 from Sins Forums Top

I have a question i love the new Entrenchment and love the new concepts of gameplay it adds. But When will we see major graphical improvments to the game? I mean the graphics are still great but id like to start seeing some effort to improve them more. Will we be seeing that in the future some time?

 

Reply #97 from Sins Forums Top

I'm pretty sure what we're going to see in Beta 3 is very close to final.  I'm sure they'll patch up the release version with any glaring issues that are discovered or last-minute fixes that didn't make the B3 cutoff.

Reply #98 from Sins Forums Top

Do not doubt IC young one. LOL, or they will sick their horde techno ninjas from F.E.A.R. on you.;P

LOL.

 

You do bring up a good point though. You have 30 mins IC to answer......GO!!!!:rofl:

Reply #99 from Sins Forums Top

god do you know how long it takes to download stuff in the flipping desert...X(   its like im in the 90's as far as dling speed (16 kb/s standard) but i shall do it b\c entrenchment is king

Reply #100 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting d3vild0g, reply 24
god do you know how long it takes to download stuff in the flipping desert...   its like im in the 90's as far as dling speed (16 kb/s standard) but i shall do it b\c entrenchment is king
End of d3vild0g's quote

 

Preach brothah.