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DalzK
DalzK
Join Date 09/2008
+26

[BALANCE]Wyrmskin Gloves

February 21, 2009 6:21:59 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Think its agreed that they are probably too good for their price.
30+ Damage
25% Slow down (20% chance)
AND
Extra Damage

For 1.5k, thats too good. Either get rid of extra damage, make 30+ damage 15+ or take away slow down - just anything to nerf it slightly (maybe even raise its price).

Thoughts?

P.S - Just did a ingame test with TBO, Gloves are NOT bugged in any way. My speed never fell below 25%, and in LUA files it has the command STACK="Replace" (Thanks to TBO for this). Therefore conclude its not bugged Horse....apology? lol

Note; The -15 damage bonus was NOT enough of a nerf. At least take away its attack speed reduction and put its movement speed slowdown bonus down to 20 or 15%.

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DalzK
fuzzynutz
Join Date 04/2008
0
Reply #1 February 22, 2009 5:57:08 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I don't care if it is a bug, but the other options are not nearly as good as what you can get for 1500 here with these gloves.  Almost a no brainer, like Robe of Night or whatever.  Being slowed in this game pretty much equals death if you are already losing the fight.  And when you can do it so easily with this item, it throws the balance off imo.  There are a ton of items that seem completely useless, and I would only select in a game if I was just mucking about. 

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DalzK
DalzK
Join Date 09/2008
+26
Reply #2 February 22, 2009 6:14:31 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Wand of speed does completely negate its effects, so I guess until they balance it thats the solution if your finding it too hard to deal with.

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DalzK
fuzzynutz
Join Date 04/2008
0
Reply #3 February 22, 2009 6:50:36 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Ok cool thanks.

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DalzK
TheBigOne
Join Date 04/2008
+9
Reply #4 February 22, 2009 7:54:35 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Dalzk it doesn't negate the effect :

1) Speed buffs are calculated from base value - Speed debuffs reduce your total speed (including your speed buffs)

So if you have basespeed 6 and speed buffs of 50% you get a total speed of 9.

If now a speed debuff of -50% is applied you end up with a speed of 4.5 which is only 75% of your base speed.

(The actual order in which the buffs/debuffs are applied is irrelevant here - doesn't change how it is calculated)

To put it mathematically :

total speed = basespeed * (1+ Sum of Speedbuffs) * (1-Sum of Debuffs)

4,5 = 6 *(1+0.50) * (1-0.50)

for 0<x<1 the result of (1+x) * (1-x) is always smaller than 1.

Disclaimer : I haven't actually tested it yet in beta3 but I think it didn't change.

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DalzK
DalzK
Join Date 09/2008
+26
Reply #5 February 22, 2009 10:39:02 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I mean once you get hit by the slow effects, you activate wand of speed (its not passive) which boosts your speed by 25%.

So if my base speed is 6, I get slowed by 25% - my speed is now 4.5. I activate Wand of Speed which increases my speed by 25% - will it it increase it by 6x0.25 or 4.5x0.25?

Honestly though its not very effecient but as a temporary solution its the best I can come up with. Apart from warpstone which is probably the best counter, but thats 2.5k.

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DalzK
TheBigOne
Join Date 04/2008
+9
Reply #6 February 22, 2009 10:54:52 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Just did a few tests with DalzK and in Beta 3 the slowdown also only considers the base speed, so they aren't as brutal as before anymore - values probably need adjustments still but it should be easier to balance that way

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DalzK
WarlokLord
Join Date 09/2007
+19
Reply #7 February 23, 2009 6:49:15 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I would raise the item price.

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DalzK
Stimulant
Join Date 02/2007
0
Reply #8 February 23, 2009 10:58:18 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Poison Dagger (favor item) + Wyrmskin Gloves + Maim is quite intense and it only costs 1500 gold.

 

 

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DalzK
HorseRadish
Join Date 05/2008
+12
Reply #9 February 23, 2009 12:22:17 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

You know Dalzk I hate those f#$^%&*^%$%^%%$ Gloves except when i play regulus     my problem is like the game we were in when I look at my character and i see TWO PICTURES of GLOVES and maim why is it stacking. The problem I have is the stacking.  You should only be allowed one slow at a time not multiple cause if TBO calculations are correct.  That is the numbers from one glove what about two or three. And you can buy those f$##^%$#^$#^ gloves within 2 minutes of gameplay.

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DalzK
HorseRadish
Join Date 05/2008
+12
Reply #10 February 23, 2009 12:32:20 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

[ Therefore conclude its not bugged Horse....apology? lol
[/quote]

 

I am sorry i chastised you!!!!

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DalzK
DalzK
Join Date 09/2008
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Reply #11 February 23, 2009 3:10:41 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Thanks HorseRadish thats much appreciated Good sports! And I know how annoying/lame they can be!

I am not sure if 2 gloves stack though? Pretty sure TBO found that STACK="Replace" command in LUA files...Ill go test to double check

If they do thats a serious problem, they should never stack.

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DalzK
EpicBarrelRoll
Join Date 08/2008
+1
Reply #12 March 4, 2009 6:35:19 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

[b-tagged]

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DalzK
WarlokLord
Join Date 09/2007
+19
Reply #13 March 4, 2009 9:30:32 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

You should *NOT* be able to purchase multiple identical items, if I am reading comments testifying to that effect correctly. Do people run around with 5 pairs of Wyrmskin Gloves?!?...

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DalzK
kyonu
Join Date 02/2009
+1
Reply #14 March 5, 2009 12:56:09 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

That would be insanely awesome, but unfortunately not.

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DalzK
WarlokLord
Join Date 09/2007
+19
Reply #15 March 5, 2009 1:46:39 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting kyonu,
reply 14
That would be insanely awesome, but unfortunately not.

Good!

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DalzK
Ke5trel
Join Date 02/2008
+118
Reply #16 March 5, 2009 2:41:24 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

You should *NOT* be able to purchase multiple identical items, if I am reading comments testifying to that effect correctly. Do people run around with 5 pairs of Wyrmskin Gloves?!?...

I often run into battle with 5 mageslayers equipped, just for the 75% lifesteal on 1k hits....

No man - each player can buy it, so if 3 players with wyrmskin gloves hit you the effect stacks.  I've never seen this and the code says it doesn't work that way but that is what HR is upset about...   

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DalzK
DalzK
Join Date 09/2008
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Reply #17 March 5, 2009 4:45:46 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Note; The -15 damage bonus was NOT enough of a nerf. At least take away its attack speed reduction and put its movement speed slowdown bonus down to 20 or 15%.

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DalzK
WarlokLord
Join Date 09/2007
+19
Reply #18 March 6, 2009 6:49:07 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Ke5trel,
reply 16

You should *NOT* be able to purchase multiple identical items, if I am reading comments testifying to that effect correctly. Do people run around with 5 pairs of Wyrmskin Gloves?!?...


I often run into battle with 5 mageslayers equipped, just for the 75% lifesteal on 1k hits....

No man - each player can buy it, so if 3 players with wyrmskin gloves hit you the effect stacks.  I've never seen this and the code says it doesn't work that way but that is what HR is upset about...   

Aah, I see.

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DalzK
HorseRadish
Join Date 05/2008
+12
Reply #19 March 6, 2009 12:32:20 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Yesterday I played a game and had 5 item pictures that reduced my speed.  this is bull crap I am talking worse then stunning at least stunning is gone in couple seconds. 8 second slows is B.S.

Poisoned dagger, wyrmskin gloves, Maim, beasts claws, TB Freeze,

 

Why? Wtf? Isn't their enough slows in game reduce all to 5% this needs to change If your going to allow all the stacking.

I bet I wasn't even at quarter of my original speed

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DalzK
DalzK
Join Date 09/2008
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Reply #20 March 6, 2009 1:23:48 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Yea Horse thats a really annoying problem with the game atm. Maybe there should be a max amount of slow debuffs you can have at one time - ill make a seperate post about this.

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DalzK
Ralsar
Join Date 02/2008
+6
Reply #21 March 6, 2009 1:43:22 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I think any time a player is left completely helpless, be it rampant stunning, stacked speed debuffs or whatever, it is a problem.  It is a fun killer.  There should always be some way to counter whatever is thrown at you.

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DalzK
Ke5trel
Join Date 02/2008
+118
Reply #22 March 6, 2009 2:39:17 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

There should always be some way to counter whatever is thrown at you.

This should be a mantra.  The player should never feel helpless.  Something as simple as Frogboy's rebound scroll helps alot and I hope it makes it in. 

Meanwhile I've been pushing for a free action potion for oh, five months now, but that may never materialize...

It would be so easy though - 600 gold gets you a potion which makes you immune to stuns and slows for 8 seconds..why wouldn't the devs want to bring this in?

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DalzK
HorseRadish
Join Date 05/2008
+12
Reply #23 March 6, 2009 3:45:39 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Hell give me the invisibility scroll back we had in beta 1 at least i could escape

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