Hit. The. Nail. So. Frickin. Hard. On the frickin head.

Seriously, the only thing like DotA that I have noticed is it's whole Gametype/Concept. Other than that, it's completely different in every aspect. Damage system is way different, abilities are way more advanced, characters move different, look different, act different, graphics (Obviously), story (don't even think DotA had one) and even the people that play it. DotA is not even a strategy mod, all you have to do is get like, 3 or 4 key items and BAM! You're unstoppable. That and the abilities are faaaar unbalanced unlike Demigod's.

The ONLY other thing I would like to see though, is weapon/armor imbueing/combining.

Back on topic, I've tested the connection stuff on a few computers from friends that bought it, with different internet providers and different types of internet; and so far, it's only a select few. That might be a bit hard to figure out.

Do i ? or do you overestimate the importance of Dota's playerbase in relation to the market ?

I guess we can only agree to disagree on that issue, unless you got a source citing actual numbers.

The only hits on google i found where pointing towards popularity in Asia and Korea... which is to be expected with the public exposure Blizzard, Blizzard games and anything related to them, enjoy over there in general.

For reference: 

I don't have anything against Dota. There are people who like it, there are people who think it sucks, but it does have it's niche, certainly.

I do have my reservations about the notion that Dota is the be all end all of gamedesign.

On a personal level, Demigod certainly is far from perfect, but i'm definitely enjoying it quite a lot more than Dota and well, quite a bit less than Supreme Commander, but that is another story. Still, it's good for a change of pace. - and that alone makes it a rare rare breed in my eyes.

Dota never gave me that "flow" experiene that a good game needs to give. Doesn't mean it's a bad game, just that it doesn't do anything for me. lol.

Wow, they are really piling out of the woodwork - innociv, Jinx...now where's Drexion?  You guys should come play tomorrow morning too.  It gets a little more interesting when you have teams of 3 or more and everyone knows the basics. 

Also hopefully after release there will be space between the Stardock Wringing Hands Brigade and the DoTA Gnashing Teeth Horde for the rest of us to play the game

Yeah, the only thing alike with Demigod and DotA is the basic foundation the game is built on.  Oh wait.

P.S.  Your comments about "3 or 4 key items" and "abilities are way more advanced" reveal your lack of credibility regarding DotA.

If you want to play DotA, play DotA. If you want to play Demigod, play Demigod.

I didn't think it would be that hard to figure out.

My thoughts exactly.

I play Galactic Civilizations 2 still and every now and then some Space Empires IV troll will climb out and start saying how much better Space Empires is than Galactic Civilizations because of its "depth". It's like, fine, go away and play Space Empires. My enjoyment of a different game doesn't take anything about from Space Empires.

Same here. I like Demigod a lot better than Dota. That doesn't take anything away from someone else who prefers Dota.

For those talking about Dota player base...just go Garena. 140k~300k players online ALWAYS, at least half of them playing. And that's just the pirate's way, not Battle.net

Main drawback of demigod against DOTA: dota has evolved for more than 5 years, there are a lot of balance, heroes and stuff going. Demigod just started and there's lack of variety on builds and some balance tweaking.

Why dont DotA fanboys wait 5 years than comeback?

Answer: because there's no reason the game can't be just as good or almost as good NOW.  It's not that far off, really, it just needs some tweaking, some added features or number balancing, perhaps some skill changes, a few more Demigods with more varied skillsets, and things could change dramatically.  Waiting 5 years is not at all necessary.

I agree with that part of your statement. Enough said.

[/shut up]

I don´t think Demigod will be game of the year. There are enough other over hyped games out there :-/

But Demigod is funny. I first heard about it in a little article, in which it was said that Demigod will be similar to DotA. Because of this analogy I was just like: "omfg, great!"

But I´ve learned very fast, that Demigod isn´t DotA (but still, a good game!). So, first I was disappointed about it.

The problem is, that Demigod has been compared very often with DotA in nearly every article. So, every DotA player will wait for the demo (or just go to a torrent page), test it and then bash the game, because it´s not like DotA in all (a few parts, yes, but not everything for a DotA 2.0).

If I want to play CS, I launch CS. If I want to play dota, I launch WC3. If I want to play Demigod, I launch Impulse (to check the store first ).

i like demigod more than dota. besides the dota community being made up of punks, dota's idea of depth is to pile on details that require memorization rather than skill. demigod is much more approachable and has better mechanics.

This is an interesting point, but I don't really agree.  DotA does have plenty to memorize, it's true, and that is a large part of being good at it.  But simply knowing things, like knowing which items can combine into what better items, where the best parts of the map for sneak attacks are, which heroes work best together, and so on, doesn't make you great at DotA.  It's still impossible to be successful in earning gold, killing enemy heroes, and getting to the enemy base if you don't have micro and proper instincts.  That's because it's much harder to earn gold (have to get it through last hit on creeps or through hero kills, and it comes much more slowly anyway) and also because, in large part, the heroes in DotA are much less straightforward.  There are a lot of heroes in DotA whose skills take some practice to get the hang of (Techies for example), and take true skill to get the most of.  Sure, there are some heroes that are extremely straightforward (Sniper is a good example) but even those require some finesse.

Demigod has some of these aspects to varying degrees, but it's rather lacking, I think, especially in the areas of Demigod abilities.  I haven't come across really any skillsets that are not pretty straightforward, and furthermore I'm not so sure how somebody can get significantly more out of the skills through practice.  Also, while DotA might have a bit too much to memorize (debatable), I can't help feeling that Demigod might have just a bit too little.  There aren't very many items, and most of them do pretty much the same thing.  Almost all the maps we've seen so far are very similar, and once you've played a Demigod once or twice, you have a pretty solid idea of how they function and which abilities are best.

I'm confused. Can someone please sum up what we are ragin' about? I'd like to join in.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I can speak for myself.

I'm not bothered in the slightest by the criticism, constructive criticism is a great thing. I'm just tired of all the idiotic "This feature isn't exactly like DotA, so it sucks and Demigod will fail."

I've said it before, if you want to play DotA, that is perfectly fine, you can play DotA. But stop trying to pressure GPG/Stardock to make Demigod into a complete clone.

I'm not sure anybody wants a clone.  Why buy Demigod if it's a clone?  Could just go play DotA.  I think what you overlook is that people aren't pointing to things in DotA and saying "make Demigod like this because DotA is that way," but rather, "Demigod would be better if it were more like DotA in this aspect."  There are aspects of DotA that Demigod can certainly improve upon, and actually in some cases already has.  However, we ought to recognize when something in DotA (or any other game for that matter) is superior to how things currently are in Demigod.  There's no point in blindly disregarding statements about DotA by saying "Demigod isn't DotA, go play DotA," just as there's no point is trying to make Demigod exactly like DotA.

I know I am probably the reason many people bitch on here and other threads about stardock/gpg fanboys.  I don't think that is really fair.  I agree with Gir92, and furthermore just hate the idea of criticism without specifics or with no ideas for improvement.  Most of the time when I try to temper the doom sayers, I simply want more specifics or an actual idea on how to improve things.  It has never made sense to me to say this sucks.  I have always felt, if everything sucks so much and you don't have any ideas, go play somewhere else.  Now saying that, I would much rather you play here and help us make things better.

Since it's become a general vent your frustrations thread, I'm tired of the "the full version is much better than what you're testing" caveat to all posts by Brad recently.

If it's done enough that anyone can say the full version is definately better why not release it to the beta testers for feedback?

If on the other hand it's not actually finished enough to release then you can't know it "will" be better, especially with so little development time left, don't try to sell people snake oil. Being condecended to like that has always completely put me off trying to give in depth feedback.

I've never said the full version will be "much better" than what you're testing.

Let me be clear: If you hate beta 3D you will hate the final version too.  But looking at the overall feedback we've gotten, I think we have good reason to feel good and confident about Demigod.

Where the final version will be better is in balance, Impulse Reactor features, connectivity features, match-making and of course the single-player game (which includes AI improvements).  But none of those things are going to change someone who is looking for a DotA clone.

A lot of people don't realize that our goal isn't to make something just like Dota but with better production values. Dota was certainly one of the early inspirations for the style of game Demigod is (as opposed to say DOW or Empire Total War or Supreme Commander or Sins of a Solar Empire). 

My opinion is that Dota has helped define a new kind of strategy sub-genre and Demigod exists in that new sub-genre.

I've been through a lot of these betas over the years and it's always the same.  With Sins of a Solar Empire, there were the hard core gamers who said that it wasn't really a 4X game and that it didn't have enough "depth".  With Galactic Civilizations is was the same thing "not enough depth".  Hard core players tend to want endless amounts of depth.

I don't use the term "hard core gamer" as a perjorative here. It is simply that people who join these beta programs tend to be from a subset of the demographic we are trying to reach.  

We have put enough typical strategy gamers in front of Demigod and seen how they react to know we have something very special here.  Our job going forward is to continue to polish the game, listen to feedback and enhance what we have, and of course address the two biggest real issues: Connectivity and in-game disconnect handling (both technical issues).

Thanks.  I figure that after release, we can look at all kinds of cool stuff for the future.

But Demigod's success (as a game) is going to be based off the current game. And its success as a product will hinge on making sure it's a reliable multiplayer experience.

You rang, Ke5trel? hehe... I am looking forward to trying out 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 matches...certainly... From what i've read though, the connectivity still isn't there to set up such a large game of SPECIFIC players...So i'm still hanging back a bit Maybe i'll try out a game or two now that 3D is out.

-Drexion

Connectivity does seem better in beta 3d.  I was able to play two 5v5 games this weekend.

In the past 5v5 usually never even start successfully or 5v5 gets very laggy.

that argument doesn't really have legs for a couple reasons

1 - dota was made by one guy.  Eul (sorta), then Guinsoo, then Icefrog, but always one at a time.  While the community helps flag out imbalances, the mod development is by one dude.  Furthermore, it is an independant effort.  They have no resources to speak of, unlike Demigod's budget of how many million?

2 - the second reason is easier to explain with an example.  When WOW came out, it was really shaky and was lacking in end game content.  5 years later, it has tons of end game content and is highly polished.  When new MMO's come out and they're not as good as WOW, do you think people give that game the same 5 year chance that they gave WOW?  Of course not.  Age of Conan and Warhammer Online are two examples of games that were lacking in endgame content and needed a bit more polish (especially the AoC). Currently, AoC is nearly dead and Warhammer seems to be dying a slow death.

What tends to happen when you don't one-up your competition right out of the gates is that you get a large influx of people who are curious about the game at first (making it seem like a success) then suddenly everyone leaves when they realize there's no reason to play this game over that game.

I'm not saying this will happen to Demigod.  I'm only saying your argument, "If you give [this game] 5 years, like you did with [that game], ill be suprised if its not 10x better" is incredibly, incredibly naive.