[BALANCE]Which Demigods need Nerfing/Buffing

DalzK

Join Date 09/2008

+26

[BALANCE]Which Demigods need Nerfing/Buffing

I think so far Demigod has done really well at balancing when you compare it to beta 1 and beta 2. Its really had huge improvements, but of course, its still pretty unbalanced (as is every game on release/late beta). Heres a list on who needs buffing/nerfing (please add your thoughts):

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Erebus
He has a pretty cool style of play, and is the more difficult to play Demigods - which is fine, because when he play him right he isnt bad at all. I think it can be pretty much agreed though he probably one of the worst (if not the worst) Demigod. The main reason is mainly because his Bite is very buggy - and he can often be quite reliant on it. I think a buff such as making him less mana dependant would be great. Mist mana degen so far is fine - if it was lower he could stay in mist forever/longer. Skills such as bite/batswarm/stun need a slight mana decrease. The reason I say this is because he is very mana depedant - but even when he splashes out all his mana moves, he does hardly any damage/big effect. So to round up:

1. Decrease man cost of some skills/all skills (NOT mist).

2. Give him higher mana/mana regen stats

3. Increase Base Speed. Starting off with a base speed of 6.3 sounds good, and he still would not be faster than Unclean Beast as he does not have any passive speed buffs.

4. AoE stun should cast as fast as Torch Bearer's AoE stun. No reason why it should be slower.

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Oak

The Oak is currently one of the weakest Demigods (bottom 4). I think he needs a few small buffs to make more him a bit more viable in competitive play. Maybe some increased armor on him would suit his whole style of play and help him play as a better Demigod.

1. Give Oak some extra starting armor/better armor growth rate. He is a melee Demigod yet his armor really isnt good enough to tank more than a Regulus can. At Erebus has bite (drain hp), mist, bat swarm and stun to get out if hes in trouble but Oak only has a shield lasting 3-6 secs every 35 secs.

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Queen of Thorns

Despite her buffs from the last build, I still feel she is slightly underpowered. I could be wrong, but I generally think she is. Of course her mulch is great now - but without it she is very poor, and this needs to be changed imo. Doesnt need massive buffs, as she isnt massively underpowered.

1. Shamblers need to be buffed a little - More damage. If are going to put damage up by a lot, then also put their health down by a bit. Since she relies so heavily on Mulch to do well, it means she also has to take the Shamblers skill tree as well, which at the moment isnt great.

2. Again, about Shamblers - Give them a little side effect. E.g. When hit by Shamblers spikes, you now take 10% more damage. E.g. When near a Shambler you gain + X amount of armor. Those are just two examples, but any others would be great too.

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The Rook

Currently Overpowered in many people's eyes. He needs a small HP nerf - he should still be able to tank, but late game only to a certain extent (cap his Hp at 7k or something). Also, his towers late game can be pretty insane.

1. Lower the cap on late game towers. Ive seen Rooks putting up around 8 towers around the map at one time allowing allies to teleport wherever they want and put you at a huge disadvnatage if your near them.

2. Lower HP (late game at least). I can pretty easily reach 8.2khp in a fullish game. Slightly too much imo, and I think the best solution would be maybe cappting his HP at 7.2k or something?

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Torchbearer

Both overpowered and underpowered. His ice form is too strong, his fire too weak. Shatter can deal 2.9k damage late game while stunning you once and interupting you again and increasing all your cooldowns by 7 seconds. This ontop of slowdowned attack AND movement speed is just too much. Something needs to change.

1. Shatter Damage Decreased. Early game its fine and you start to notice it a bit more mid game - but its lateish game where it really hurts. The shatter combo is really not that hard to do and can fish out a hell alotta of damage (more than Rooks Hammer Slam and about 10x easier to hit, while also putting on increased cooldown, interupts, decreased movement and attackspeed.).

2. Increase Deep Freeze Cooldown. Increasing this cooldown by about 5 seconds or so (more or less, test it and decide) can mean that someone cannot just deal out his shatter combo so easily again and again as all their cooldowns (frost nova, rain, deepfreeze) dont finish at the same time. Lets be honest anyway - who actually uses deep freeze if its not for shatter anyway? So increasing his deep freeze cooldown essentially means instead of dealing 2.9k damage every 11 secs - its not 16 secs.

3. Decrease Frost Nova Range. Its honestly too big at the moment for an AoE stun. Should be reduced by only a bit, but people should be able to run away from it a lot more easily.

4. Ring of Fire buff. There have been quite a few posts/threads on this already so I wont go indepth. To put it it straight - it sucks, and needs a buff. Whether you change it to a meteor (remember reading that? quite random but w/e) or just increase its range or dps, its needed.

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Unclean Beast

This guy is generally known as the better Demigods (possible second or third best). He only needs a smaller nerf imo, like decrease dps a tiny bit or decrease his slow debuffs (50% to hit so first hit doesnt always mean death? He is faster than everyone else in the first place).

1. Decrease DPS (Damage) a tiny bit.

2. Passive Snare has has should be given 50% chance to hit, not 100, as he is already faster than all Demigods.

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For now thats all I have. Two DG's who need buff and two who need nerf. Please post your thoughts/extra ideas and if they are reasonable I will add them here in the thread.

On a seperate note, NERF WYSKRMIN GLOVES AND STAFF OF RENEWAL KK THX. I DONT ENJOY HAVING INSTA-STOP FROM GLOVES AND GETTING 2.9K DAMAGE WITH STUN AND INTERUPT EVERY 6 SECONDS /end noob rant.

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Quoting Rumors,

reply 25

Although i agree with many things writen in this thread, i would like to remember people that many of the OP solutions for any of this demigods some times rely on items, and if you buy one item the other guy in the other team can buy another, items need to be balanced but should not interfer much in balancing demigods.

For instance:

TB has a very powerfull combo, powerfull when you get the 3 skills in ICE to complete the combo, but must one remind that in order to complete the combo TB as to buy a mana item, like the "+1500 mana 1500g" or the item to the right of it "1750g". Without at least one of this items you will find it hard to relly make the combo effective and finish another human player. Killing AI players is very easy and shouldn't count for balance.

I gave TB as an example because imo is probably the more mana dependant demigod, but happens with others too.

Your point? It's mindlessly easy for TB to get those mana items.

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Quoting PossiblyImpossible,

reply 1

Your point? It's mindlessly easy for TB to get those mana items.

Yes, just as easy as it is for other demigods to get more HP or any other item that helps counter TB combo, or UB attack speed.

My point is that to balance demigods correctly itens should be left out of the equation. Balancing itens is important too, dont get me wrong.

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Quoting Rumors,

reply 2

Quoting PossiblyImpossible, reply 1
Your point? It's mindlessly easy for TB to get those mana items.
Yes, just as easy as it is for other demigods to get more HP or any other item that helps counter TB combo, or UB attack speed.

My point is that to balance demigods correctly itens should be left out of the equation. Balancing itens is important too, dont get me wrong.

Yeah, I suppose that's true, though I'm not sure where anybody has disagreed with that. At the moment I can't really think of any items besides the crit chance items that do anything to change the way any of the Demigods are played, so item balance isn't as much of an issue.

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Hmmm had a match vs an Erebus using all his night walkers and idols. They actually hurt quite a bit...Will have to try in a more viable match.

It's a long shot, but could that have been me? Erebus idol build is fantastic when you play it more like a strategy game and less like an RPG (use your minions seperately from your demigod, heal friendly demigods with priests, get those +minion regen items).

Incidentally also butchered a triple-Regulus team in my second game of beta3 - they're pushovers. A mixed demigod team will always beat a stacked uniform team of equal skill.

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My point is that to balance demigods correctly itens should be left out of the equation. Balancing itens is important too, dont get me wrong.

You can't leave a single element out of the equation or you get totally useless results, items benefit all demigods differently.

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I just believe one can't make assumptions about skill tree powerness or powerless when that build, or the sucess of that build, is based on purchased items, because anyone on the opposing team can counter your items with other items, or should be able to do it anyway (item balancing).

For instance, UB or Reg buys +dmg, i buy +armor. TB or Rook buys +mana and +manaregen, i buy +HP and +HPregen to suck up the dmg. Maybe not the exact strategy but in this cases will counter their options.

Other items like staff or renewall or Poison dagger or even Warpstone, help some demigods more than others, and that items should be carefully looked at and balanced properly.

But if i make a game with no items, completly, shouldn't that game be balanced too?

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I dont get where this whole items and Demigods balance argument came from - came out of nowhere.

Of course some items are more effective than others (wyskrmin gloves with Reg better than with Rook) but still we are talking about balancing Demigods, not the items, as they are all balanced anyway (except a slight few - wyskrmin gloves and staff of renewal).

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It came because, imo if you leave items out of the equation, the OPness cames in diferent forms, for instance you get:

- a unstopable UB that kills TB, Reg and everyone besides Rook with no chance of escaping (slow, +speed, +attack speed and dmg, and a Dot just in case u escape to make sure your die)

- a TB with a powerfull combo but without mana to really make it effective

- Reg finds him self late game unabble to do much unless his target decides to run through all his mines (considering u got them in the skill tree)

- Rook keeps doing what he does best, pawn you over and over, has extra dmg and one very powerfull skill.

- Generals find them selfs without meaningfull dmg, for instance sedna keeps mana to never die, or Pounces in hope of don't getting targeted. But overall generals wont do much dmg and are quite fragile.

Remember, this if no one buys items.

Items are part of the game, yes, and have to be considered. But do we want items to be smth we buy because this demigod NEEDS this item, like in everytime i play this demigod i know i'll buy this item and that one, without them i wont do shit. Or do I want balanced demigods and fun to play with without the items, and then items are ways of improving my demigd in that certain aspect. Trying to surprise the enemy, or counter the items he bought.

Sry not much time to explain fully what i mean, or even really put here whay i think about demigods in terms of balance right now. The sentences above are more examples and not exactly what happens right now. Will do it when i have time and keep following this thread.

Just consider what I wrote, and do 2v2 with friends without items to try to understand what i mean.

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Yes we all know items effect the way a Demigod plays out, but I still am completely missing your point and its revelance. I mean, what exactly are you trying to say/prove? What should I add to the Demigod nerf/buff list?

The fact that a TB can pull off a 2.9k shatter combo so easily with other effects is the problem. I dont care where he gets the mana from (from items or not), the matter of the fact is he can pull a combo off like that which is OP.

The fact that a Rook can reach 8k+ hp so easily is the problem. Again, I dont care if he needs certain items, the point is he CAN reach 8k+hp pretty easily, and that is overpowered/unbalanced.

I mean I have posted which items are overpowered at the moment (wyskrmin gloves + staff of renewal etc.) so whats the problem. Whats the point of your whole items + demigod equation? Do you think none of us know that items actually give Demigods bonuses?

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