Best defensive character.

Being a hardcore dota player along with many others. My friends and I are stuck on a discission.  Defence in this game is the ability to SLOW DOWN player pushes, until support arrives, and since you can't reproduce towers(except the new ones that pop up when your cath lvls up) its important to protect them.  But we can't choose which char to be. So here are my ideas. 

Rook is nice, tower spammer. Nice for when you have a retreating brotherin and he doesn't have to go far to find safety between towers and a treb. Although the towers maintain their ability to down just about anything through out the game, the treb is trash at late game. Also with items you can reduce towers to 4 seconds recharge. 8 towers in 32 seconds is pretty awsome.. But his weakness is range.. and unmovability. So he requires support.

My next guess would be sedna just because of her ability to stay in battles longer.   A wall doesn't have to be a wall.. it just have to be somthign that stops pushes.  Either go for unit spammer, and sit in the back spamming heals at yoruself and stacking +minon health and let those yetis go to town. Or stack health and armor.. and use her pounce/speed/and heal to keep em at bay long enough for support.

My general idea iam trying to get at is HP wise.. Towers have the most hp,2.5k at the end. thats 20k of dmg to chew through, but 8 towers can get hit at the same time.. or have about 7-9k health while spamming heals, or spam high hp pets around 2.5-3k health pets and make the player deal with them.

 

4,385 views 17 replies
Reply #1 Top

The Frost Torch Bearer is very effective. Early game - once you upgrade Rain of Ice to rank 2 - he can kill all enemy reinforcements with one cast of Rain of Ice, making your reinforcements attack the enemy heroes. If you upgraded your Citadel, this is very significant and consistent DPS.

Late game, his Shatter combo is usually not enough to kill, but it still does respectable damage which makes the enemy hero retreat in many cases. It will usually take almost 3/4 of the target's HP, and you get the benefit of using Rain of Ice in this combo which deals almost 1k damage to a large area late game. This is, again, respectable damage to any heroes who are unlucky enough to be in the area of the target of your Shatter combo.

 

IMO Fire & Frost TB is the best duo, because you get both the Frost aura which slows down your enemies, and the Fire aura which makes you go faster, so escaping from enemies is trivial.

Reply #2 Top

there are many way to slow down/stop pushes; Sedna, the rook or the torch bearer can be very effective at that. But even Regulus, if you up his mines, can blast some grunts. The queen also have an effective AOE spell, so it is really up to you to choose how you want to fight.

Reply #3 Top

QoT imo is the best defensive. Very good tank with Bramble + mulch can make very unkillable - Ground spikes are good for taking out reinforcements but thats up to you :)

Reply #4 Top

I like your ideas, I just find him at a dissadvantage when fighting more then one demigod. The ice stun is nice, and its a pbae.. which is great because they will come in close making it easier to catch them both, but iam worried about his surviability. Hes a one shot cannon having to rely on pots. which are great early-mid game. but can't match 1500 or the 2k heals rook and sedna has vs the 750 from pot.  And if you really wanna roll the stun, rook has a stun, with a decent cd.. but a nasty mana cost.

Although, if you stack speed items and just keep harrassing them, that could work. kite them.. could work on the larger maps no prob...=)

Btw i don't care about grammer anymore. i have class soon and been studying all night bare with me =).

I think we might have to turn this into the best defence strat for a map. =) based on skills.

Reply #5 Top

Qot was my first choice also, but she really hurts in the dmg department unless you spec for it late game, and i like to be infront of my towers and fall back to them. With her i felt i was always behind my towers since she doens't have a stun or any way(slows) to make somone think twice before rushing me while iam in towers.

Reply #6 Top

Also fred, we threw him out right off the bat, the ae dmg is nice along with the range, but he lacks any mechanic to last more then 10 seconds against the ussual stun/burst combo.  Iam talking about high end, high hp tanks of a sort with skill to compliment them.  Hes better to just slow/outrange the towers. He would be like a switcher for the last push. While the STOPPER, takes the front lines, and he pushes up the side where the stopper was..

Reply #7 Top

I like your ideas, I just find him at a dissadvantage when fighting more then one demigod. The ice stun is nice, and its a pbae.. which is great because they will come in close making it easier to catch them both, but iam worried about his surviability. Hes a one shot cannon having to rely on pots. which are great early-mid game. but can't match 1500 or the 2k heals rook and sedna has vs the 750 from pot.  And if you really wanna roll the stun, rook has a stun, with a decent cd.. but a nasty mana cost.

He only relies on pots very early game. Later on you get the Heart of Fire, and then you can get get the +1500 Mana +70% Mana Regen and some armor. You're literally invulnerable at that point, because if you play correctly, you'll survive long enough to form a gap using the Frost aura, and then you can use the Heart of Fire to regenerate your HP/MP. (it doesn't require stopping, unlike a potion)

The stun is pretty useless against Demigods since it only lasts 1 sec, it's mainly for interrupts and the Shatter combo. It is pretty awesome though, since in the later ranks, if you rush in a bunch of enemies to Shatter a Demigod, they'll all be stunned for 8-10 seconds which gives you plenty of time to go in and out.

As I said, his protection stems from the "my health is too low" factor. You can scare people into leaving you alone with a Shatter combo, especially if there's a friendly Demigod near you, because they fear that Demigod will knock the last bit of their health away.

For all of these reasons (long stun on normal units and buildings, powerful AOE that 1hits reinforcements, and the spike damage on a single Demigod), it's usually not very dangerous to run in and do a Shatter combo.

It doesn't kill, but it makes the target retreat. With all reinforcements dead from Rain of Ice, and the surrounding towers stunned by Frost Nova, it's very easy to push [back].

 

I guess he's not really a "tank", but he clears the area for other Demigods to make a strong push.

Reply #8 Top

Rook imo. You said it yourself...even though you mention his slow speed and lack of range as a disadvantage, I really don't see how that's a problem if all you want is defense. He can construct towers which can be nasty in small maps, has his addon weapons that have decent range, and if the enemy gets too close you smash them with the strongest aoe nuke in the game. You don't need range nor mobility if you're standing by your tower defending.

Other than that, all general commanders make fairly good defenders, and if you have to retreat with them you can still leave your minnions.

Reply #9 Top

Ya its either rook of sedna.. i think its situational. It comes to down to how well the other player is..  If he understand that after yoru stun/nuke combo. that does half my life.. how am i gonna recover through it.. I can steal a tower, but they down my towers iam SOL. against a well player, but sedna has an pbae silence for 4 seconds, giving me the freedom to get that heal off and forcing them into melee, where i can stack +armor items and laught at their non-exsitence dmg. Also can spam units on the run if i really need to fall back to towers..But rook you just can't beat those towers.. And i don't play rook but i play sedna atm, who i choose, but by today my friend and i said if we can't figure it out over the forums then we will flip a coin =)

Also iam like 9% sure the magic and ability dmg doesn't get migrated by armor.

So pros are

Rook=

PBAE,Towers, secondbest heal IMO, treb can attack other towers, ae ownage ability, stun.

Sedna=

Silence, Best heal(reliable), has decent offensive skill to fight off one attacker, speed(thats a biggy), ability to spam minions, many passive abilities.

 

I have to go to class, i'll continue this when i get back.

Reply #10 Top

Wel, if you're talking about defense... Then definately Rook. QoT is best at taking out creeps (lvl4 ground spike kills everything but giants) but she can't stop DGs.

A Rook with Hammer Slam + Towers + Shoulder upgrades can slow them down a ton. If they're melee they won't be able to push at all because 5+ towers + Rook will just rape them. If they're ranged, they'll get slowed down a ton, since they have to take out all your towers and avoid letting you get close. 

So yes, Rook is definately the best defensive DG. 

Reply #11 Top

Right now with certain Sedna builds you can literally make yourself invincible. So the answer is Sedna. This is not my opinion.

Reply #13 Top

QoT and Erebus.

Erebus is best with controlling flags since you can mist on them until help arrives.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting slurple, reply 11
Right now with certain Sedna builds you can literally make yourself invincible. So the answer is Sedna. This is not my opinion.
Doesn't matter if she's invicible, she's not gonna be able to stop creeps + 2 DGs. There'll simply be too much for her to kill. 

Now that I think about it, once giants are out the best hero is QoT easily, because she can 1 shot entire creep waves except for the Giants, which she shouldn't have much trouble killing with normal attacks and minions. 

P.S. So, late late game QoT is the best, but early and midgame before Giants/Catapults come out, Rook is. 

Reply #15 Top

Fire Torch Bearer, obviously.


The best defence is a good arson.

Burn BURN BURN BURN BURN BURN

Reply #16 Top

Rook: He can drop towers, but overall he is a big castle and he has plenty of staying power.

Sedna: Her heals and Yetis give her staying power. The Heal Aura is helpful for this as well.

QoT: The best defense is a good offense. She is a capable pusher and her shield let's her hold ground very nicely.

Erebus: He can turn into mist, and with proper +mana regen gear he can hold for a long time.

Reply #17 Top

Where is this 'make Sedna invincible' build?