the late game come-backs i believe are due to the dynamic of the citadel.  if a team is starting to get hammered and pull back and work on defense, they will eventually mount enough xp and gold to got back on the offensive (given the other team is overly aggressive and ends up just feeding rather than progressing).  the teams that just blow through and make come-backs impossible are the ones that understand that their first crack at the citadel better be a good one

As has been said several times, it does happen and the only time it does not is when Team A is so much better than Team B. The only time any match has been "set" is when you can point your finger at another demigod and say he's helping the other time more than your own.

When people feed another demigod, don't know what the hell they are doing build\item wise, don't even know what a citadel is, can't harass, never heal, and don't feed on creeps whenever there's no demigod around, you get skewed matches that are obvious as to the victor.

Give people time to catch up skill wise, not everyone has played the Beta or DoTA. In the games where I have seen skilled players on both sides, they've always been fierce matches with few, hard earned kills. One game I personally played had that final "creep swarm" that usually end games in Catatract but we managed to push it back, cap their spawn flags, blow up half their towers, and keep going. Eventually we won.

I think that's how it should be. I know some people orgasm from simply winning for whatever reason, but I much prefer a "good" match even if I lose. I despise overwhelming wins or losses. If you know whose going to win from the start, why waste your time?

I think a greater problem with the game is that there aren't enough finishers that help bring a game quickly to its conclusion when the momentum is overwhelmingly on one team's side...

No we jsut think the better players should win?

If you're playing an FPS, and one team has some guy with 20 kills and 0 deaths, and their team score is 25 and yours is 15, and the goal is to reach 30 points... Well they have a really damn good guy on their team, sorry.  MAYBE you can get 15 points before they get 5, but it's 3x more likely they'll win because of their early advantage.

It's the same case.

It's just like any RTS.  In SC expanding to get lots of resources fast can help you win.

In Company of heros, there might be an important fuel spot when if you hold it you can really hinder axis teching.

Every game has it.  You don't reward axis with extra fuel in company of hero's because "boo hoo those mean axis players took the territory I needed to make victory easier"

You were playing Crucible, right?  That map needs some adjustment in terms of a few tower placements and the Crystal.  I don't play games on that map because the game time goes up about 50-150% regardless of teams or mode.  The devs should have it on the list since we talked about it in Beta. 

We shouldn't talk about Crucible if we are looking at momentum or balance.

But it's the most popular map now due to a tendency for smaller games

The big questions is (and remains), what is the point of boosting the inferior team after a lengthy game, if they have been outplayed for a pretty long time? I can see some sort of mechanic to prevent events in the first 3 minutes that are more dependant on luck influencing the game too much, but to turn around a losing game, you have to be far better or clever than your opponent, and a weird loser bonus doesnt change that.

Actually, I think this would make matches with people relatively close to each other in skill extremely frustrating, as the underdog bonus bounces back and forth, keeping the game in a stalemate.

The problem with a "Concede" button is, IMO, that people are already extremely quick at giving up. Literally, sometimes my opponent gets his DG killed by my QoT in the first fight, and immediately says "gg" or "fu" and disconnects. Sometimes it takes a bit longer, but apparently there is already a tendency among some players to take the convenient door out if things dont look like they ll be going their way almost immediately.

Late-game turnarounds come from something that this "Resign" Button or Underdog-Bonus thoroughly undermine: The will to fight on.

If you want to put a concede option into the game, I suggest giving it pretty late into the game, so people dont get tempted to give up but try, and maybe learn or do a very satisfying turn-around.

You have to think of the motivation of both sides here. I mean, a player with a powerful reputation would probably just get out-conceded half the time.

... Terrible example. Momentum is a non-issue in shooters because there isn't any massive disadvantage you can build up over time. When you spawn, you spawn with the exact same stats and equipment as your opponent. A point deficit can actually be equalized through skillful play. In fact, it's one of the best genres for exciting last minute turn arounds.

The same cannot be said for DG, since even if you manage to kill a crazy over-geared, out-levelling DG, they will still be right back next life with the exact same equipment and skills.

You really aren't getting my point here. I completely agree better players should win. That's pretty crucial to any good game. If you start making too many random gameplay elements you get players complaining about "lucky" wins. Rather, I would like to see more oppourtunities to pull ahead, even if your team encountered early difficulties.

Many RTS use subtle game play mechanics that help balance out late-game play. For example, DoW2 uses upkeep rates on units to slow resource rate. Higher tier units require more upkeep, as does maintaining more squads. The effect you see is the larger (and normally winning) army will have much higher upkeep costs than the losing one. For the losing side this means that despite your smaller standing army, you still have a shot at catching up becuase you are collecting resources at a higher rate.

And really, that fuel depot the Axis are blocking you from? It's not hard to ninja cap in an RTS because you have an entire army at your disposal. Feint, sneak a unit in, turn the flag over. Not the case in DG; trying to sneak in often means overextending like crazy and getting ganked.

There is an easy solution for this, i hope devs consider this.

The closer the creeps you kill are to your base, the more xp/gold you get from them.

This will make other demigods think twice about hoarding portals and overwhelming the opposing team with priests, giants and minions.

Unfortunately this will also make games drag on longer, but this should off set some momentum and give the losing team a fighting chance.

I actually mentioned in the OP that the concede button should only be activated after some period of time, probably dependant on the specific map being played.

And I don't really see how the underdog-bonus would undermine your "will to fight on"... In fact it's the exact opposite. The bonus would be something to look forward to, desperately hold on, with the hope that if you get it the tide of battle could be turned.

I am thinking about both sides. Is it really fun to finish the last 15 minutes of a 3v3, after all but one of the enemy team quit? Yeah, beating on that one player who was polite enough not to quit feels really good, doesn't it? >:(

sorry for the big STOP sign i smash into your face but......

doing that will only result into a VERY VERY VERY long game because there is NO way to finish someone off. without creep support you can't kill a citadel with creep support your enemys team will outlevel and out gold you fast and they will turn the game, untill you can out gold and out level them at your citadel......pritty stupid idea.

@#$@, THANK YOU!! Great example of a really, really simple tweak that could help with the swing of the game.

I honestly think one of the biggest problems is... player skill and death.

If you die too much too earily you're behind the gun in a big way.  Players who do not pull out or retreat soon enough are just feeding the other team gold and experiance. Also players who do not work together Vs teams that do are more likely to die!

I'm hoping as player skill goes up, will see more changes of swing states but lets be honest even in RTS games typically you have have come backs and close games when skill levels of the players are close to being equal.

Unequal skill match ups usually result in a stomping (and I think the same thing happens in Demigod -- to a slighly lesser extent).

While I'm a huge fan of games that the underdog can come back, you have to be very careful.  Anything you do to help them can be too drastic and take away from the overdog.  Do too little, and all you're really doing is prologing the game.

Play smarter, play together and I think you'll see the fun factor increase for everyone.

I think the best way would be to remove the regeneration of buildings, which would half the length of matches. Early on, you can push a tower several times, but it slowly regens, so you only chip away at it. You can get to the late game and make several gigantic pushes at the citadel, and in between each rush it regenerates a fourth of it's HP. It's literally just a waste of time. One huge sweep against the citadel should literally be a game clincher.

Also, the respawn rate of players and the close proximity of everything in the base really makes it easy to turtle defend until the opposition finally manages to completely swamp the base clean. The only real way to win is with one hell of a bang.

Why? Do you really want to make the game THAT much longer? Players should be REWARDED for spending gold. Not PUNISHED. This is an absolute digression of the game and it's assumed incentives of playing. Terrible idea. Horrible. I really don't want to spend 5 hours on each game just because the other side gets every chance to make a complete turn around, only because the game lets them, not because they play better.

Regardless, they already have the advantage of a surplus of free creep kills within the sanctuary of their base. If they play smart and just pick off the creeps and avoid further feeding the other team, they can push back.

Fixed.

pfffft! i think in demigod the dominating team has a great number of options to end it quick... I have yet to see any significant comebacks at all, but i do believe that its possible... I think allowing for the upgrading of the creeps and citadel is a great solution to the game ending and game reigniting problem in and of its self.

Actually, if I recall, buildings don't regenerate unless somebody buys the Citadel upgrade to make them regenerate.  Granted, you can get even a decent boost right off the bat at WR 1.

Perhaps if this was adjusted to WR 2 or 3, that would be a more effective solution.

At higher levels of play you'll realise games can turn around quite frequently, unless you've completel screwed yourself over, in which case you deserve to low.

I've had two games in the last couple of matches, where they were destroying our citadel, but we pushed back and beat them. in one of the games they had our citadel at 2000hp, we killed them then went back and forth, them at our doorstep and then us at theirs. after our citadel went under 5% HP for the 3rd time we finally pushed them back and won.

It was an hour long game but when they had first gotten our Citadel to 2000hp we were only 40minutes in, so thats 20min of the game going back and forth constantly about to lose.

I think right know everyone is just on a different skill level since the game is so new, so in most games one player will just be better and win.

I SO wish I could show you a replay of my game today.  4v4, our tower was 90% dead (enemy was untouched).  I was playing Oak and dending the citadel.  Just being a good sport until we lost.  I had almost 10k saved up (WAS going to by Armor of the Gods), so I click on our citidel, and upgrade the health/healing of our buidings (twice I think, I just kept clicking).  The tower starts to slooooowly heal itself; just a tiny bit faster than they can damage it.  And because they were al concentraiting on the tower, we took 3 of the 4 DGs out. 

We came back and won.  So, it can be done (some of the time), you just have to find the right counters, or go for broke.

please nolc, your just mad i called you out on this thread http://forums.demigodthegame.com/347394

you could have made a constructive post with your own suggestions, instead you choose to troll and look "pritty stupid" yourself.

this system would have probably helped you out a ton anyways, you seemed to like prolonging the inevitable and hiding by your crystal while bitching how much your AI sucks, my AI is better and how imbalanced the game is.

i think the ability to shift momentum depends on the map

Play some domination matches and then try to say late game turn arounds don't happen. I just came back from a 5v5 game where my team came back from being 4000 points down to lose by just 200. In other games a team has turned it around from similar margins and won. You have to focus on citadel upgrades and pushing back the other team's demigods, and then go for towers when the other team is waiting to respawn. If you get giants before the other team even has catapults, then turn-arounds practically happen on their own.

if you play in a team, you always can turn the game, I think. If you manage to team up and get only 2-3 demigod kills, while the other team doesnt, you can really come back. Of course, if your opponent team is too good, you maybe cant kill one of them. But well.. if a team is good, why should you win xD

I see another problem, that often games are decided, and well... still they take half an hour to finally end. often catapultasauri are the final thing you need to get through heavy defense lines. Maybe there should be a way to have lighter siege weapons b4. cannoneers or something.

im sure some tweaks will be made but it seems almost there to me

i understand what you are saying and it is valid, but keep in mind there are plenty of strategies hidden i think that will surface as the game matures

ill give a good example of turn around techniques

when the grunts are up to giants, the portal flags are very powerful.. ive been in games where we were going down and like people said we were lower level than our attackers because they got the leveling momentum early on... so we were around level 10 and they are were closer to 20...

one good trick is to have everyone defend eccept 1 that is good at taking down towers like the rook or the crossbow guy is sneaky.. and sneak over to their base and capture their portals... with giants and your demigod you can get their base to like half before they even make it back to defend... and then your teammates join you in the battle on their side etc...

that only works on medium and big maps... really the map plays a huge role.. so new maps will change gameplay too as other poster mentioned with the snake map..

I have noticed if you are lower level than other demigods just avoid the hunters and do other things like fight grunts in the fog untill you level up a bit... and remember like others have said the grunts go both ways, if you upgrade them early you feed the enemy team more exp...

another good trick is to save the upgrade money untill last min and buy priests to giants in one swoop after the demigods are close to max and exp doesnt matter as much... it works and keeps the other team from outleveling you...

I do think you should get exp for taking out towers and buildings cause if i run around and do that I am always much lower than the rest...

so far I think this game is amazingly well done.... i just cant believe so few maps (content) ... if there was single player like warcraft i could understand but there is none... so whats their excuse? im already getting tired of the handful of maps... just seems very strange to me.. but at least what is there is polished...  I can wait for more maps i guess..