Killing Demigods gives WAY too much gold, and creeps/towers need a massive rebalance for better graduation

I like it the way it is. Dying is supposed to reward the enemy greatly, to make sure everyone understands YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DIE. Otherwise it will be used too much as "get me back to base quickly". And it will remove a lot of the... pressure... on each combat with the enemy demigods. It should feel like - o shit, this is being decided right here and right now, and if I die or kill the enemy demigod, it will be a significant boon to the victor.

If anything, they should remove gold from AI demigods, so you can't "farm" them as you say. They are effectively feeder-bots, feeding the enemy gold.

The reward for clearing towers is map access.

I am not sure about the power of grunts, I see that it could be very different from the game we play now but I don't necessarily think its for the better. Either way, they will probably end up going down to AOE damage anyway since its so effective (ring of fire - 1500 damage over 9 seconds vs fireball 1050 damage vs one target). If the creeps last longer, that just means there will be more at the same place countering the effect of making them resistant to damage.

Kinda have to agree, killing DGs gives too much gold. A single teammate who's feeding the other team can ruin the whole game way too easily. Like, they're helping the other team. The amount of gold earned on killing a DG should be more based on his stats in the game, good players would be worth more, and being repeatedly killed would reduce the amount of gold granted (not to the point where suicidal strikes become a valid strategy, though. But there's still 30s respawn, which can be pretty brutal, too).

Compared to DotA, I like the creeps more in DG, as last hitting is pretty much eliminated. Buffing them up too much in durability and gold reward would  bring last hitting to this game too. But the creeps are bit too weak, it's easy to just ignore them and go for DGs. Later, when they're upgraded, they become better, for a while, but it's not until giants that killing a wave takes more than a good AoE and perhaps few hits.

Towers on the other hand feel about right now. But true, the tower upgrades aren't really worth it. At the point when you need them, you've probably already lost many towers, and battle is going near your base. Imo towers should get weaker towards later game, they're there to prevent early rushes and such. But upgrades should be a viable choice, and make it considerably harder to progress past towers.

I think it would actually help with the late-game if demigod gold was reduced while creeps gave slightly more.

The problem you have is the stronger demi-gods kill you faster and easier, which only makes them stronger (resulting in a snowball effect, they get stronger - you stay the same...game over).

By switching the gold focus slightly from demi-god to creeps you ensure that the team losing badly (typically resulting in the winning team having more portals which means more creeps, thus more gold) allows the losing side a chance to increase their gold levels, buy items/upgrades etc while the winning side has a smaller income because the creeps produced are in their favour so they have less to kill. This should ensure the game remains competitive into the late stages and gives a longer sea-saw style battle.

/Agreed. Wanted to say the same.

/Agreed. Wanted to say the same.

THe game is balenced... if you spread your focus from yourself and your creep evolution you do fine. 

In Salughter you focus on a build that drops DGs ASAP

In Fortress you beef the base ASAP

In conquest or domination you balence it out or fall behind and die.

Give the game 3 months before whining about rebalences please... you just need to think outside your current builds and tactics... Personally I never have had a problem yet.

(not letting me edit my post for some reason...)

Don't forget that we're playing as DemiGods! the only real worry on the field is SUPPOSED to be the other DGs....

Eh, I don't see how that's whining. And it's not about having problems - or being less skilled - either, just how the game feels like. While the game has far pressing problems atm, I don't think feedback is a bad thing. Like, this may not chance anytime soon, but worth mentioning anyway.

Here's a tip (and its a big important one)

YOU'RE NEVER SUPPOSED TO DIE

THERE'S NO STRATEGY IN THAT. You can't decide, strategically, that your damage to a tower is worth more than the gold and XP given to your enemy. Like, harassing workers in any RTS, where you can lose the units, but you know you did more damage. That doesn't exist in Demigod, because the gold given for killing Demigods massively outweighs any you can get from any other source. Fortress, Domination, Conquest, they all = Slaughter because of this.

@murder: I'm fully aware of the advantages of clearing towers. My point is that when you're at level 1, you can't do it. You just wait. When you're at level 15 with catapultasaurii, they're no impediment at all. There's no scaling here. Minotaurs and Archers and Priests and Angels plain suck, and always plain suck. People rush out to get catapults and Giants. Why? Because they're the only creeps that can actually influence the balance of a Demigod match. Yes, we play as Demigods, but equally, THERE ARE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE GAME TOO.

I would like to look at the creep damage upgrade and think hey, that might be worth it. Or the creep hp/armor one. Same for the building HP/regen. You just flat out pwn them in a ridiculous way. Except for early Towers, Catas and Giants. That's it.

I agree with you on this one. It's no fun to be on the losing side and have no chance at making a comeback - if that's the case, then you would just quit, which means no fun for the losers or winners. But then it would just have to be balanced so that losing and having more creeps to kill doesn't result in the game see-sawing back and forth when one side is on the brink of winning.

As for the war rank upgrades, I only ever purchase a handful of them, like the advanced creep upgrades as people have mentioned. There's no point in that system if people are using just a small portion of it, so I definately would like to see some buffs to those upgrades to encourage more diverse usage of it. For example, instead of people just dumping money into getting the giants or catapulsarii, they could put their money into just the armor upgrade so that the basic creeps are a force to be dealt with or into the structure upgrades so that buildings can handle high-leveled demigods. But for now, most of the war rank tree is useless.

Totally Aggree. Creeps and towers are 99% useless. All they are good for is take the damage from towers for you. Also, why even bother playing as a general when UB and Regulus get to rape everything in sight? they benefit so much more from leveling up and items because their main advantage is high is weapon damage. 

no death has little to no other penalty

If this was the only real worry, why are the minions there at all? 

A lot of kills i get playing the game right now is from people being stupid and overzealous, not understanding when they're supposed to retreat.  If you played any DotA before this one, this kind of game is mostly stick-and-move and the reason people are dying right now is because they dont know when to run away. They forget about Regulus' or TB's finishers, or whether or not UCB DoT'd them.

Once the game is out longer and some more metaplay can settle in, we'll see less deaths and the gold reaped from killing a demigod will be more in tow, but it would be nearsighted to lower the reward for killing a demigod now simply because there's so many people who have not played this kind of game before and don't know how to protect themselves from death yet.

As far as AoE killing creeps, creeps are meant to be killed for their XP and AoE is meant to do it and do it quickly.

That doesn't change my other complaint, that consumables are OP. It's not viable to not put gold into potions. As for protection from death, I'm a beta tester. By simply dying less, you just deny your opponent the fruits of his hard work. As for AoE killing creeps, why bother with the creeps? Just level everyone up and save the CPU cycles.

I don't see how consumables are OP. I never use them and seem to do alright. Game I just played I had ~15 kills, 3-4 deaths and was the only one to get to lvl 20 (5v5 w/ 2 humans each, and enemy players did use potions).

Demigod SHOULD DROP A TON OF MONEY WHEN THEY DIE, this is because you SHOULD NOT BE DYING.  If they were to change this tactic it would be make it FAR less tactical and be a spam fest just like the other games I hate and left (warcraft III, Red Alert 3)

IMO Creeps are suppose to be weak, it's part of what makes you feel powerful.  Even so, depending on which demigod you are if you're by yourself fighting both towers and creeps, it is hard and typically it will force you to retreat.

If you've upgraded your creeps, that costs a ton of cash.  If thats how you've spent your gold they creeps SHOULD be better than the towers -- unless of course you've spent a ton of cash upgrading your defences.

Early game to me is just killing creeps and trying to take neutral flags and fighting Demigods.  If you force a demigod to retreat or you kill them, you can then push in and try to take a tower down and typically you can do so.  This in turn slowly has you moving towards your goal.

Yes, you can wait and just farm creeps/demi till you get more powerful and then start assaulting towers (and it is much easier then) but you don't have to.  The whole point is the game has to escalate and eventually finish.

So anyway I don't agree with you on Towers or Creeps..

But when it comes to the rewards for killing another Demigod it does feel like a HUGE swing in the killers favor.  Once you get 2-3 Demigod kills I have some substantial amount of cash, which in turn allows me to get some really good gear.  Now with the better gear it's even easier for me to kill other demigod.  It's almost a double reward you gain both exp & gold and the death timer keeps them from getting gold or exp. It can spiral downward very very quickly. 

I've been on both sides of the fence:

• While it's fun to start really kicking ass (get 3 kills get better gear, now higher level, keep killing other Demigods for 5-6 more kills, now I'm pretty much unstoppable and can take on 3 of them all at once). 

• The reverse, I've died early and now everyone is higher level, I have little to no gold and am struggling to get any.  You end up almost having to avoid other demigods (because you'll lose to them very very fast) and try to fight creep.
  • This flip side is very un-fun.  Part of it is player skill, sure I should not have died....
  • But it also feels very very unforgiving if you're playing with equal or good players...

So while I do think you should be rewarded for killing another demigod, I'm left wondering if the current reward should not be toned down just a little bit.

More *testing* is needed of course

-Jara

Isn't tower gold rewardl like 1k?  I think that's fine

But actually, if you put creep spawns to fast, it is a bit better to kil lcreeps.  There is more to kill, so more gold.  I think the game would play much better if they increased the normal creep spawn to give more gold.  It both makes creeps deadlier, and you get gold faster(though xp too)

I think Demigod kills do give a bit too much though.  I liked it more when you only got like 100 than now.  1600 gold for a kill seems like too much for me..  It's too much of a "rich get richer" thing right now.  Too much snowball.  300-1000 as a reward would be better, based on levels.

But there should be bonuses for killing someone that was on a killing spree and stuff to earn more than 1k for a kill.

It's like, not only do you get tons of gold, but someone isn't earning xp by being near a lane when they're alive.  So they get further behind than I think they should.

again i desagree , dying should give the enemie huge advantage and reward . You should rarely die if you know what your doing . so far my past 10 games I did around 5 times . It put pression on you and I love that . No penalty or reward for killing a  demigod then alot will leave this game for sure.The more money you get the faster the game will end , I dont feel watching me play DG for hours in a game ...

I honestly think you're wrong, once priests enter the march of creeps, your chances of creeps taking down towers dramatically increases. And the Minotaurs may be cannonfodder, and so too the archers, but at low levels they are actually something you need to avoid getting in...Not so much that they can kill you outright, but they can deal enough damage to a low level DG that another fight with an opposing DG could be seriously threatening...and dying early game is a bad idea.

I do sort of like the idea that towers and creeps simply level up with say...the average level of the team, all of whom pay a tax for such upgrade...or simply remove the cost and reduce the amount of gold acquired. But by doing so you take some of the budgeting out of the game...and I think it's an important part of the tactics of the game.

Basically, I largely disagree.

True, dying shouldn't happen often. But on public games there will always be new players and such, and having even one feeder in team can pretty much ruin the game. As mentioned above, it's snowball effect. If even single players keeps getting killed, eventually the opposing team grows strong enough to pretty much disable or outright kill even the other demigods. So, the reward for killing demigods might be balanced for a game, where everybody knows what they're doing, at least enough not to die too often. But that's not usually the case in public games.

Just recently played a great 3v3 game. It kept on between bases, and things were pretty even. But apparently one player in the opposing team wasn't as good, or was simply too reckless, and during the game died often. It wasn't that bad at start, his team could support him well (hard to kill anything with Sedna around , but the additional gold added up, and made it easier for our team to kill win. Like, when other players had 0 to 3 deaths or so, one had around 10 deaths. Simply put, when the 'weaker' player was alone, he was pretty much dead already, with the better gear we had. Mind, he wasn't that bad, but he overextended and didn't run away when he should have. And that might have cost his team the game.

My rook is too sloow, and is more a base destroying beast.   Although I have ways to kill a demigod it is a huge challenge, even with my stone hurling abilities to keep them in place temporarily I usually have a hard time getting the killing blow on them since they can easily pop a pot to get away from my grasps.  Vice versa doesn't exist for me, teleporting is a tad slow and I take just as much damage as the other demigods =P

basically i disagree strongly with the OP. 

if its a bad thing to suicide into a tower, then how can you say towers are worthless? they clearly make a huge difference for controlling territory. you'll almost never be able to win a fight in your opponent's territory if his towers are still up.

the low level creeps (soldiers and archers) are not threats at all to DGs but they do contribute to lane pushing and will do significant amounts of damge to towers and enemy minions if supported by a DG. 

priests are an incredibly important strategic assett because they heal you pretty rapidly. they also have reasonable strong range attacks that can actually threaten low and mid level DGs quite alot.