If they get the same speed items, you're the same speed. If they're running from you, they're not attacking you.

Okay, and as a Rook you have this skill called Slam. Tends to be dangerous to walk into. If the problem is them running from you, then congratulations sir! You're out-pushing them.

I don't really feel like explaining how to play Rook to you, because I've never had any of the problems you're talking about here.

No.  UB has a higher base speed than the others.

But AFAIK Rook moves the same as all but UB and Erebus. He just looks slower because he's big.

You won't outrun UB with the same items because he has +movespeed skills.

youd be suprised how often people run into that boulder/hammer combo. just got to know where to place your slam (hint: behind the stunned target).

He also won't out-last you one vs. one in the correct build to counter.

Oh I didn't say UB is instawin because he moves faster at all.  I was simply saying.  These are parts of the games you have to consider and not expert one strategy to previel over everything.

You can also stun them with boulder roll and autoattack for more damage than your hammerslam would of done in 1.5seconds..

Towers are a lot better than hammerslam.  f'ing hilarious against mist erebus too.

Translation: LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GAME OR YOU SUCK.

I don't see why this conversation has gone on for so long, or why any of you are still trying to prove the point. If you feed ANY character enough, they will dominate you, it doesn't matter how they choose to spend all that gold, if you or your team gives it to them, you will lose.

WEll his point about autoattacking being a bit overpowering is valid.

Past lvl 15, you really are better off auto attacking than using hammerslam in most cases.  Better to have put those points into other skills, because you can do more DPS than hammerslam does, and not have to worry about missing or interupts at least.

Same when you look at fireball.

It's not that fireball really needs a buff.. just some items like mageslayer, ashkandor, bracelet of rage, and all father ring need a nerf.

The other stuff said is mostly whining though.

So basically hiding behind your towers the entire game. No good UB player is not going to spit on you once or twice before moving in to finish you as you try to limp off. Plus till you get level 2 boulder, slam can be stopped by foul grasp. Rook is one of the easiest match-ups for UB due to the fact that unless you're hiding behind your towers, you're going to get spit on and UB isn't going to take much damage in return. He's already naturally faster then rook plus he has inner beast to increases it further. The only success a rook has had for keeping me away was hiding behind 3-4 towers. He wasn't doing anything by hiding behind them though.

It's kinda sad rook who's a giant castle, has most of his damage coming from auto attacking skills. (towers and shoulders) That, and when you look at rook you think he's the toughest to kill yet QoT is several times harder to kill and she's only slightly bigger then the starting minotaurs. (not counting the chariot obviously that's not her)

Nope. Roll+Slam. Auto attack. Kite. Kite. Roll+Slam. Kite. Kite. I'm being pretty generous with my items in this situation, assuming I'm not in my optimal build.

I've never had a problem with any UB on rook before. In a level 20 vs 20 perfect setup, rook probably wont win, but the game isn't about ultimate setups. It's about micro-management, and I never allow a UB to farm past me. No UB ever has thus far.

In a team with good coordination spells are much stronger because you'll get so many kills at the begining of the game that you'll simply outlevel and outupgrade your enemy. However this is obviously not the case with random teams, damage item are really strong on Regulus and UB, and defense items on Sadena....holy crap she's unkillable.

I find it very sad that there are no items to improve spells but rather there way to go is insane attack speed with huge crits. Thank god no "bash" is in the game. This was one big flaw with dota late game, it's really sad they didn't expand on it. I mean this problem has been looooooooooong solved in RPGs. Obviously mana cost increases when the damage increases so you don't get infinite mana at some point. Also we'll see more variety of item combinations isntead of massssss damage. At least that's what I always go for, sometimes with 1 defensive item but that's about it.

That must be a pretty bad UB if you can actually kite him as a rook. 1k Boots + inner beast 1 point, which can be learned at level 2 makes UB faster then rook even if he has 1k boots and swift anklet. So between level 1-5 the UB never bought 1k boots and rook did + rook used his favor item on swift anklet. That's the only way a rook can ever hope to kite UB. Even then he only has a 13-14% speed advantage over UB due to rook's speed penalty and UB's speed advantage. Something tells me those UB's also think bestial wrath is a good starting skill too.

Foul grasp can be learned at level 5 as well. The thing that doesn't sound possible is until level 10 boulder roll is only 1.5 seconds which is enough time to start auto attacking you or turn on bestial wrath before the slam has even hit unless you're standing on top of him.

I don't doubt you're good at rook i'm just seriously doubting you've faced an UB that even understands how UB works. (Tip for UB's: Spit is your best skill, but if you want to use bestial wrath GET HEALTH AND ARMOUR. Bestial wrath provides enough boost to make even your normal attack damage hurt quite a bit.)

All I keep reading is: "OMG, my team let the other team farm us for artifacts! Now we are losing! THIS GAME IS SO UNFAIR!!!!"

I'm with DeadMG on this one. End game with even teams (when that actually happens) you're forced into building up your autoattack. Spells don't pack the same punch at 20.

Um.. It's irrelevant.  These are the predominant items.  Next after you have those you'd probably get bracelet of rage.  Then you're doing like 1500DPS with, when hammer slam is much less DPS than that in melee range and it's easy to avoid while autoattacks hit no matter what.

Fact is, IAS stacking is what causes this.  IAS stacking needs a nerf.. both to how it calculates, and the itesm themselves. +25% ias with +dmg and life steal on a 8k item is HUGE.  Even at 10% or 15% IAS mageslayer would be worth the 8k.

I ask you, would you find an item that cost 4k, with 10% IAS and 12% lifesteal OP? Because that's more or less what mageslayer is.

After all this, I think Mageslayer should probably cost 10,000g.  

Mageslayer has +45 damage too.

So if you want to compare..

+22.5 dmage
+12.5% IAS
+6% life steal for 4k

vs
+30 damage
10% damage for 3.3k

It's not just that though, it's item spots too.  More expensive items shouldn't(and usually don't) give as much benefit for their cost, they just give high benefit per slot.

And it's not just that, but IAS stacking.  You get mageslayer and ashkandor, and that's +50% damage.  +50% is fine when you're doing base damage, but you have +dmg items being MULTIPLIED instead of added as well as increased procs(like from poisoned dagger, wyrmskin)

IAS is the most powerful offensive buff.  If you have 100 damage, +25% IAS is the same as +25 damage until you add +dmg items, % chance on hit items, crit more, and so on.

So yes.  Mageslayer would still be worth 8k with 15% IAS.

hum... It's realy rare to be full stuffed rares items, and if it's the case it's because the other team gave you lot of easy money by dying a lot and let you get all the mines Of course all dépend of the type of game you play, but there is some importants tech to get in the citadelle.

About skills dmg cap at the end of a game, it's not a really probleme. The rook hammer inflict slow to all people near the hit, perfect for finish them witth the help of your team. A rook alone is pretty useless I think, or just good to defend with his towers. All the fast dps DG can be neutralized with some stun attack. normal attacks can be neutralize with armors, but not the skills damages.

never play alone, and dont die too much.

I 100% agree with this. I don't even bother getting boulder anymore. The cast time is too long, the boulder frequently misses, and the stun is not near long enough. It's deffinately not long enough to boulder and then wind up a hammer, at least not until level 10 or 15. There are so many better builds to take than this one.

Rook is slow, you should play to his strengths not try to compensate for his weakness with items. I've been more effective with a tower build and forcing enemy demigods to come to me. Makes it much easier to land a hammer smash. The key is to use the hammer smash so they won't have enough health to run away afterwards (meaning don't open the attack with it, wait until they're at about 50% health).

And Before 15 levels (a majority of the game), you have the advantage. Stop whining and use it.

I agree with most everyone else here...don't let the game get that far. A good skill build will tend to outlevel others up until lvl 15. Just beat them before that point. That said, I do think there should be some +skill dmg items. It would make the game a little more interesting.

Skill boosting items would be a nice touch. But as far as the topic goes, if you've got a game where one team has enough cash and access to the artifact shop to stack up that much, the game is pretty much decided. That's why I think the artifacts are as powerful as they are, because at that point the game just needs to end quickly, and that's a good way to do it. 18k for Ashkandor and 8k for Mageslayer is not pocket change.

+Weapon damage items effect all base attacks, So a Torch bearer's fire ball auto attack is effected -- same with attack speed increases. 

What it won't effect is abilities, like say the button push to fire a long range fireball.

The escalation in gold/items is one of the ways the game is guaranteed to end.  It also means if you're losing you'll be facing some powerful demigods with powerful gear/items.

IMO the more you've been out played* the more powerful your enemy demigods will feel at end game.

*Out played could have been: Early game micro, timing of abilities, teamwork, map control, itemization (better gear choices), or fortress upgrades (timing of when they upgraded things Vs you).

This is invalid.  ALL characters have auto attacks and there for all of them gain benifit from weapon damage and attack speed increases.