Anyway, as it stands the basic argument is that Rook never needs to worry about mana and can somehow afford a HoL, a Vlemish helm, and still have all the HP gear he wants, that he can keep the HP flag towered even though an Ooze UB will be all over that and a tower rook can't do anything without his towers, that Rook can always hammer slam between interrupts despite the fact that interrupts cleanly beat hammer slam and that for most people interrupts aren't the primary source of damage, that rook will always be able to have 8 towers set up, that the opponent doesn't even have basic damage mitigation, that all 8 towers will always be hitting the enemy, and that hammer slam, boulder roll, towers, and shoulders can all be fully upgraded to their max level at any level despite the fact that no other demigod can level up 4 skill strings at once without sacraficing one of them.

Did I miss any assumptions there?

Hol +vlemish + some basic hp items is well under 10k. Should ber possible in 10-13 level range. 

An ooze UB does not stand a change to focus fire from everything the Rook can employ. Really play DeadMg in a real game, he is a pretty good Rook player and knows what im talking about.

You dont need all the last levels of skills, you only need boulderrol lvl 1 for most of the game, usually rank 2 slam depending on the game, and the rest towers, godstrenth and shoulder. 

I DONT SAY TOWERROOK IS OP. I'm just refuting common misconceptions about Rook having low mana, low hp, slow speed, not being able to have towers and slam.

Usually I push most people out of my lane, then get one of their portals, and if that doesnt work, I get Hammerslam and boulderroll to high ranks get hp and journeymantreads and the like and play the rest of the game as Warspeed Rook at 10 speed. Ofc that more for shits n giggles;-).

Hol is getting nerfed, and you still won't have the tanking abilities of other DGs unless you get a kill. 10k by level 10 is unlikely unless you level slowly.

So basically you are saying "Ooze UB loses because a really good player may be able to beat you and I'm too lazy to argue my own points." FFS, just think about it. A guy with an interrupt and high armor against a guy with an easily telegraphed damage skill, low armor, and armor-reduced damage. I mean, Ooze does as much DPS as your towers do, and UB is better in melee combat than Rook when you factor in the debuff. This is all theorycraft, but your basically acting like Rook can't die.

Boulder Roll level 1 requires inhuman speed to get a HS off after. HS 2 is crap against anybody HP stacked. So your theory against Ooze UB or other HP stacked characters is even WORSE; you don't even have guaranteed armor piercing damage and you are relying on damage mitigated by UB's high natural armor, Ooze's debuff, and the mitigation from armor. Not a good combo.

Wait, you aren't saying he is OP... you are just saying he can beat everybody. None of those misconceptions you posted have been addressed; you require a good amount of cash to get your basic mana package, you have less health and speed items than other DGs (but still high health from natural damage) and by your own admission, you only get rank 2 in Hammer Slam, which is almost worthless in DG duels.

True HOL is getting nerfed, but I ussually dont get it.

Also I meant 10k at lvl13-15 no lvl 10.

No I'm not, why the fuck would he win? Rook Does NOT have low armor, yes UB has more natural armor, but the difference is so small and is ussually overcome by the Rook having so many chestpieces while the UB can go full hp but will lose on dmg and speed which arent very important for Rook. 

Towers easily out dps ooze unless you got more than 50 armor mitigation and the Rook hasent prorperly positoned them. Most Dps from Rook does not come from his autoattack, so the ooze debuff isnt really that usefull. 

Uhm Hammerslam is 1.5 secs,RR I is 1.5 secs. if he attacking you you can just RR than it takes around .35 secs for lag and reaction, than you hit with hammerslam. This means that he has .35 secs to get away, now it can be done if the Rook is a bit slow, but even if he runs away... he gets pounded by Rooks towers shoulders and AA. Rook has naturally more hp, slightly less armor, but he only needs a mana helm some potion and consumables and the rest can be pretty much armor or general stat boosters(unbreakable boots).

No I'm just saying that no DG can kill a Rook in his castle without sieging the castle first. 1750 gold for vlemisch and a mana potion, thats a lot?  Maybe a super hp stacked UB will be able to have more health, but I doubt it very much, since you are in possesion of the hp flag(if you any sort of brain). Now your gonna say I wont be able to build my castle at the hp flag, but that bollocks. Speed isnt needed, only for lategame, I just slowly creep my towers to eenemy base, and teleport around. 

Hammerslam rank2 at level 10-11, at lvl 15 I have it maxed obviously. Now Rook isnt OP, he can be killed in his castle, but he can be attrioned down, run around or ganked since he is slow(but you can tele out) and his tower dont scale.

So for the number: lvl10-12, I have hammerslam II or III and RookRoll I plus max towers shoulders and godstrenthg.

The Ub has 5.8 k hp, maxed ooze and some stats. 

I have5.3 k plus hp flag. 

The UB charges in and get pounded by my towers 500 hp lost, he tries to attack and I Rookroll my AA towers and shoulders do another 400 dmg. He begins to attack, I lose 280 hp every second while he loses 8* lets say 80 dmg plus AA and shoulder which do another 200 dps. If he tries to foulgrasp me I hammerslam him, if he evades I abort and get some hits in, if he does not he loses 900-1300 dm. Its pretty clear now no?

what do you wanna say us with this? ub will wait for your hammer slam to interupt it with foul grasp or use foul grasp near your end. anyway. it is a worthless discusion.

in my opinion it's balanced

Look, I'm tired of this. You are acting like Rook is a flat out god who can't be touched and wins everything, and every Rook player can play perfectly and somehow interrupt a near instant interrupt with a 1.5 second cast time skill. You are clearly either trolling, or completely insane.

Torch bearer and any one other will make you regret those words..

Rook has the second lowest base armor rating in the game, 20 points higher than Erebus and tied with TB. Both, however, gain more armor per level than him. Also, the difference between UB's and Rook's base armor is more than 200.

Being a skill armor does not affect ooze, and by mid-game most ooze builds have stacked armor to the point where each tower shot does slightly over 100 damage.

 

Their health will be more or less the same by mid-game, and those consumables and hammer slam can be interrupted by foul grasp, even with boulder roll.

Not every map has a neutral hp flag.

 

Hammer Slam's cast time is 1.5 seconds, there's no way UB won't be able to interrupt it. Those numbers are just plain wrong.

The problem with tower rook can be easily seen when playing pantheon games.  I used to play tower rook then realised one thing, he's just not strong enough for 2v2 on most of the maps (crucible being the exception not the rule) and this is because of his slow speed, and the fact that you only have one teammate.

Want to know how to counter a tower rook, it's easy let's take a map like Cataract for example.  Tower rook in right lane, any other hero in left lane (standard for pantheon games).  Rook will have trouble early game holding any of the flags except the lane he's in.  Tell me how you will have enough mana to build a tower farm and tp all over the map to help your ally while saving up for the items you need like HOL.  It's not like your getting hero kills in the first 1-9 lvl's against anyone competent.

Mid game when you get boulder and hammer slam up. shoulders going and towers up en masse (castle things are starting to look up.  Your pushing your lane and taking out towers quite effectively, when suddenly their two heros run around you and go straight for your portals.  Now what do you do.  Your ally is going to defend (or so you hope) and you can tp there (No way you running accross the map) if you do tp you are a tower rook build with no towers.  I repeat no towers, no castle, so against a erebus with creeps and a UB, you and your ally are dead.

Point is if you just sit in the lane against a tower rook it's gg, if you use your speed in 2v2 games to run around rook, stay away form him the reality is that you can capture all 4 portals, cap them, because you are most likely holding one flag lane and mid flag (you are faster) you have a higher warscore.  Tp back to base, upgrade your units and gg.

The key to fighting a tower rook is to just pretend he doesn't exist.  He is strong in his castle, he can only move his castle up slowly but if you make him come to you by taking down portals and flags, then he is coming to you with no towers, and that's where frankly he is just food.  If you keep using your speeds to get flags portals and making him fight away from towers you war score should rule the day.  Mobility is key in pantheon games as only 2v2 is supported right now, and rook is bar far one of the worst hero's.

Again this doesn't apply to cruicible as you can use your towers to push into their base quite quickly or build castles bottom to keep two flags yours for most of the game.  On crucible rook is probably the most overpowered, and this is because the choke point and small map size means that speed means very little to map control.

boulder roll rank II+ means i can get hammer slam off with 0% chance of interrupt

And hammer slam rank II means I would let you get it off even without the boulder roll; 900 (I think?) damage isn't even worth interrupting considering Rooks rely on teleports to run when the going gets tough.

I dont think tower upgrades from the cit upgrade Rook towers.  Atleast, I never noticed them getting better even after investing in the upgrades.

i played a game vs a rook and UB and i was TB and had a UB on my side, the rook was doing tower strat and i was to arrogant to change to the skills needed so we got owned...rematch simply changed to AoE with fireball and we owned them...result 14 kills? and thats just for me.

Didn't knew that about Rook, thought he since he was a walking castle he would have some armor lol, didn't check the numbers. But it still not important: 200-300 is not enough to make a difference and can be easily overcome by armorstacking.

I found that UB usually use their grasp too early, either way, if he doesnt he cant interrupt your teleport/potion. I always got a Hammerslam off really with lag and all. In general though you should use your hammerslam after someone interrupted you, if they dont interrupt you draw it out with a potion, you cant interrupt both potion AND hammerslam. You obviously NEVER try to slam someone that has is interrupt ready, you do it when its on CD, except when you have RR II.

A little over 100 dmg is still wickedly much, if you multiply that times 8 you get 800 every hit. Plus shoulder and AA thats beyond anything the UB can muster. Ooze is not mitigated but AA sure is, meaning you will do a lot less dps than Rook with around the same hp. 

HOWEVER, Rook is not OP, for simple reasons± he cannot finish a half decent player, he is fast enough(only 10 percent less speed than the rest) but not very mobile since he can easily picked off without his castle. I dont say Rook is unbeattable, I NEVER said that, please read better. But you cant attack a Rook in his towerfarm. There are some counters though, namely picking them off with regulus and mines or with torchbearer, an OOZE UB running STRAIGHT in wont stand a change, that is just stupid, you are pretending that OOZE UB has some godly amount of dps, AND 6k+ hp AND 2k armor. You can count towers as another player autoattacking you, that is the kind of dmg; you are saying your oozeUB can 2vs1. Rook gets sick amount of dps but loses mobility. 

P.S. Its true that not all maps have an hpflag, but usually people play Rook on the maps that do;-), it doesnt change that much though.

Cons to long ass opinion posts: no1 cares

tl;dr, short version: "I have alot of time to write this shit, blah blah blah if youre pro like ME it's a nonissue cus i know stuff"

Tower rook isn't op, I think maybe the tower's hp/dmg could be nerfed a bit, but make +minion/armor dmg effect his towers(this would make rook more fun to play imo :karma: )

Just dislodge him early and avoid running too far into his towers, playing into any demigod's hands never goes too well.

L8r, im off to troll the world one forum at a time!

-Foreshadowed<3

Zoom zoom zoom!

I liek this guy<3

So once again we assume the UB has no clue what he is doing and the Rook plays perfectly and can set up a farm that both keeps people out of the lane AND can fire on one DG with all eight towers so that you can explain how great you are. Congratulations lifekatana, you proved that if your opponenet's suck and you have the perfect conditions, you can win at this game. Who would have thought?

And seriously, you don't even KNOW the value of Rook's armor, and are talking about it? FFS, learn about the game before talking out of your ass. 200 armor is a lot, and that's just at level one; Rook also has some of the lowest armor growth in the game (I think it is the lowest), so UB will always have a big armor advantage on him.

yep. this topic is so off.

it's funny. we have here one of the most balanced games i saw for years. and it is one where slgiht imbalance does not hurt much the gameplay because of it's nature.

God have you people problems reading??? I did NOT say Rook was OP. I DO NOT SAY HE IS OP. I'm just counterring a stupid argument of an UB being able to run straight in and kill a Rook because he has more hp and more armor and more dmg.  IF YOU RUN STRAIGHT in a towerfarm with an UB you are stupid.

Please someone SHOW ME a replay that shows an UB running straight in a towerfarm and killing a good Rook.

Oh im sorry I didnt check the lua files accuratevly and looking up every stat, I already apologized for the inconsistency. If you play a game slight stat variance are so meaningless in face of proper position btw. If I play Rook I usually have high armor since I can stack chestpieces since I dont have to get speed or dmg, so I would think Rook would have high natural armor. 200 armor is certainly not enough to make a difference even early game, besides were talking mid game here no? 

hmm, do not be so egocentric! not everything posted here is only limited to counter your posts. the topic is "

Tower rook OP?"

the discussion was mostly arround this question! my post is obviously more in general to this topic and not to specific post of you. so i return you your question:

have you problems reading ???

LOL, stop being so egocentic, I wasen talking to you.

....oops

I never said you said Rook was OP. I just said you were making a bunch of horrible assumptions in order to say, at every turn, Rook wins.

as i talked about op and you posted directly after me passing some minutes after my post it is more than understandable to think it is directed to me. especially were the previous poster did not said anything that fits into your comment!

so you are still wrong.

lol, dont get too upset about;-), I didn't mean any harm=).

quote doesnt work in chrome, so this kinda happens sometimes.

P.S. And yes I know /quote works, but I'm too lazy=).