Yet another strawman argument. Wow you're really good at this aren't you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

What makes you a douche fanboy is the way you are defending the system as it currently is. That you think having an upgrade which is more than likely going to lose you the game is a good thing and something that players should learn to not use, and that this in some way is learning "strategy", and that I should have to tell my teammates every game "dont push the red self desctruct button".

Sadly every PC game seems to have them. Been there done that with Hellgate. There were so many things that could have made that game better, so many simple fixes. yet the fanbois got on the forums and defended the way the game was, and well... the rest is hostory. RIP HGL. I dont want to see that happen here.

pfft

Of course you have to learn to use it, what's wrong with that? You have to do that with everything in the game, in any game for that matter...

The only thing I could agree on here is the fact, that Priests give maybe too much xp and gold compared to a Catapultasauri for example. A slight reduction (40 XP instead of 50 as already suggested, for example) should be ok, but any balance attempt here has to be careful, otherwise the Priest upgrade is no strategic decision of high value anymore.

You think there is a problem, so do others, seems from this thread alone that more people think it's not as big of a deal.  You honestly think it's more than likely going to lose you the game?  I disagree.  I also didnt debase to these sorts of personal attacks against you, merely your tone of title, hope this clears it up for you.

So with your own use of the strawman definition, and litterally saying my defending the situation (i.e. disagreeing with you) makes me whatever,.... I don't even need to reiterate what I've said about your posting manners already, have fun with your thread.

Actually you started the ad hominems. Dont complain when you get back what you give,

But if this means you're gone, well you know... doors hitting you and stuff.

Well that's kind of the problem of the internet right now, and certainlyl also on this forum. As soon as you disagree with someone that automatically makes you either a noob or an asshole, and if 80% of the people disagree with the OP than in their eyes that just means that 80% of the people are wrong.

Not true.  Every upgrade except priests is permanently additive.  Building health?  Will never hurt you.  Minion health?  Never hurt you.  Demigod exp boost?  Never hurt you.  Currency upgrade?  Never hurt you.  Finger of God?  Never hurt you.

If you are implying the opportunity cost of buying the upgrade instead of getting something else is what is "hurting" you....maybe.

But priests not only incurs that cost but actively hurts you by giving exp and gold to the enemy.  It's like you bought the currency and exp upgrades FOR THE ENEMY.  No other upgrade does that.

• If you buy building health even though the enemy is not pushing hard enough to actually damage your tower - the upgrade hurts.
• If you buy building health even though you already los most of your towers - the upgrade hurts.
• If you buy Demigod exp boost even though the enemy does not allow you to gather exp much - the upgrade hurts.
• If you buy the currency upgrade even though the money spent would have helped you kill one or two demigods (which in turn would allow you to buy the upgrades again or other stuff) - the upgrade hurts.
• If you buy finger of god and it doesn't do enough damage to actually be of use - the upgrade hurts.
• etc.

they may hurt, but priest is the only upgrade that helps enemy

It only helps the enemy, if used wrong. If you are able to put more pressure on the enemy with priests, then they definitely do not help the enemy. They help you with killing towers and killing or pushing back enemy Demigods.

Here's how I see it, your mileage may differ.

If you're already winning (ie. pushing to their towers consistently) priests can help speed things up.

If you're in stalemate, priests are probably not be a good idea, unless you feel that you can use them in coordination with an all-out all-heroes-in-one-lane attac.  Even if you manage to rush down a couple of their towers, they rate of their exp/growth will outshadow yours.  So if you can't kill them with an alpha strike soon after priests come out, you've put yourself in a disadvantage.  An exception to this is if your use or priests allows you to keep the flags.  If the flags are powerful enough, it totally offsets the exp/gold increase the enmy gets.  Plus, it accelerates the rate at which you can get angels and catas.

If you're losing, and it doesn't look that hopeful, priests can be a last ditch effort.  You're already losing, might as well gamble a push.

In general, games tend to be close to stalemate up until the mid section.  That's why, from my experience, buying priests is usually a bad idea.  There's definately certain situations where it's useful though.  The problem with the "noob fruitcake" buying it is that they always seem to buy it for the wrong situation.  It's easier to just tell them to never buy it.

Besides, they ought to be buying gold/exp/1st level building health/minion health/attack upgrades instead if they're going to be putting money into the citadel.  They're cheap and give huge bang for your buck if you get them early.  If you want your minions to push better than theirs, creep health is the way to go.

Your example doesn't work.  Those upgrades provide no direct negative effect.  What you listed is opportunity cost which is completely different.  Priests, in addition to an opportunity cost, provide a very tangible benefit to the other team.  THAT is a direct negative effect of getting them.

If you buy any of those upgrades early game, they are huge boons - especially the level 1 upgrades.  They're cheap and in the case of building upgrade, provides a passive hp regen. They provide no direct negative effect.

Priests at early game are often disatrous unless the enemy team is very very bad at pushing.  Basically, you should only get priests early game if your team is completely dominating pushing.  However, if that's the case, you don't really need priests anyways.

The priests and angels have been significantly tweaked in terms of gold and XP in v1.1 according to the update notes. I haven't checked it out myself. We'll know tomorrow.

Oh snap.

LOL and another thread that frogboy made mute moot just by posting a simple line at the end of a heated discussion

That's the word, thanks.

Priests + angels fixed tomorrow

Alright, now I'm curious about the other side of the argument.  For everyone who defended the exp/gold values are you now disappointed or upset?  I have no idea why people went to such lengths to defend something so clearly out of whack, the only argument in favor of the status quo I'd seen made was that it wasn't that big of a deal.

Just a tad combative there, eh?  Anyway, most of the "defense", as you'll note, was centered around that while there are drawbacks to getting Priests and such, there are still tangible benefits.  The base relationship is not necessarily wrong, but instead the exact implementation of that relationship had some issues.  But caution is desirable in rectifying these so as not to change the basic relationship but rather to ensure that the relationship is only fine-tuned.

And, of course, in certain situations, the Priests' drawbacks can be absolutely irrlevant, so the issue of them *always* being an issue was also debated.

More or less, it is rather impossible to be dissappointed or upset atm when the exact details of the change remain unknown and none of us have yet played a game of Demigod with the change enacted yet.  Imo, the game in its current state is quite playable and getting Priests will not at all award the opposing team a victory, so if this change introduces such an actual impact then I do think some dissappointment will set in though I rather refuse to be upset with GPG experimenting a little bit with balance with the goal of improving the gameplay because they can always quickly revert if the change backfires somehow.

Today I won a 2v2 Conquest skirmish on Zikurat (all human players) where my ally bought preists instead of economy 1 at WR3.  We won with myself at level 13, my partner at lvl 12 and both opponents at lvl 20.  We did die more times than them but over the course of the game I scored 1 kill against each of them.  I have a screen of the final scores, I'll see if I can work out how to post it somewhere, but if you're good you can make preists work to your advantage, even though it gives exp and gold to the other side.  If you push behind them and go for tower kills you can slowly ftake the map and get giants before the enemy, you will sometimes need to flee if your opponent can clear creeps fast and easy, but not all players take a build that can.  Anyways, I don't think it needs "fixing", but yeah more players could do with knowing the advanatges and disadvanatges of early preists.

TerranUp summed it up nicely.  It wasn't so much that we were going to lengths to defend a blatant imbalance for nothing but the sake of it, just that a lot of us honestly didn't really see that much of an issue with where they were in the first place.  People learned to push with them, adapt to the situation etc etc.  When you look at a XP/gold table it shows a bit of a discrepancy between priests and minotaurs/archers though, so if they tweaked that to create a smoother balance between the tiers of grunts then that's a good thing anyway, regardless of whether some of us found it okay how it was to begin with.

the mechanic is fine as it stands.  choosing good times to upgrade should be important

the problem is being paired with a random that doesn't care about your input or experience.

You're confusing the upgrade hurting and the lost opportunity of the cost of the upgrade hurting.

In all your examples, all that hurts is the lost opportunity of the gold you spent on the upgrade. "You caould have done better spending it on something else" is what it amounts to.

With priests its not just the price of the upgreade, but the upgreade itself. Even if it were free it would hurd, because the upgrade itself hurts.

See the difference?