Brad’s Beta 3-B Walkthru Part 2

from JoeUser Forums

This is both a walkthru and my critique of where we are on the game.

This is going to get updated a lot as I go through this so keep refreshing.

The New Economy

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We definitely listened to your feedback. After considering the reports and lots of prototyping we came up with a significantly better, more original, more interesting way to run your Kingdom/Empire.

The world of Elemental is populated with many resources. Admittedly, the screenshot above represents one of those really lucky moments where there’s a lot of resources together but it does illustrate the way things work now very well.

Cities no longer produce resources on their own beyond the absolute most basic research, materials, and arcane knowledge.

The action comes from the very finite number of resources scattered about the world that you can now make use of if they are within your territory. If a resource is in your territory, just click on it and choose build. You don’t have to create any special units to make use of it.

The most common resources are:

  1. Fertile Land.  Produces Food
  2. Old Growth Forests. Produces Materials.
  3. Lost Libraries. Produces Knowledge
  4. Ancient Temples. Produces Arcane Lore
  5. Gold. Produces (well gold)

Your settlements don’t produce these things anymore in any real amount. Instead, the improvements improve upon these resources.

So a market doesn’t produce gildars anymore. It provides a bonus % to the existing production of any resources associated with that settlement.

Magical Speed Up

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A Dangerous World

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There are other things in the world trying to ruin you besides other factions. And they will if you’re not careful.

Tactical Battles

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These need more polish (for instance, the movement tiles are far too opaque), the sound is highly iffy, and the overall play tuning still needs work.

Combat & Conquest

The conquest technology tree continues to be an issue in the beta. Too long to get boring stuff. This is something that is high on our list to do something about.  It just takes way too long to get the conquest stuff going.

I’m 37 turns into my game and I have no armor items and my only decent weapon is a boar spear.

Diplomacy

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Diplomacy is coming along nicely. Of all the aspects of Elemental that still need work, this is the area that seems to be potentially the most interesting.  Unlike GalCiv which was goblygook, Elemental’s diplomacy system is much more straight forward and provides a lot more potential opportunities for trading.

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213,368 views 118 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I gotta say, a lot of drastic changes but all for the better, I think! It will be exciting to get the full release game in August, I am sure it will be completely different.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Should we be able to know the enemies' income and other info without spies or any other means to that info? Will the enemies always be an open book for us?

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Speaking of Diplomacy - Can we still trade technologies? What about complex alliances (3 or 4 players forming some kind of group alliance etc.)? Outside of trading stuff what else can you do?

 

Also how is the dynasty system coming along? Been waiting to see the finalized version.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm glad to see spouse-killing has a diplomatic penalty. Will we be able to remarry, after a suitable period of mourning, if our spouse dies, or will early spouse-hunting to end your opponents' dynasties be a minigame?

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting strager, reply 3
Speaking of Diplomacy - Can we still trade technologies? What about complex alliances (3 or 4 players forming some kind of group alliance etc.)? Outside of trading stuff what else can you do?

 

Also how is the dynasty system coming along? Been waiting to see the finalized version.

For v1.0, no.  The tech trading in GalCiv was never satisfactory and we are trying to avoid that here.  Buy beyond v1.0, anything is on the table.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting AngeloBraz, reply 2
Should we be able to know the enemies' income and other info without spies or any other means to that info? Will the enemies always be an open book for us?

I agree here. Spies should be part of the Adventure Research Tree under Thieves Guild. Once you recruit a spy and successfully send him into one of the other kingdom/empires city you should get this info, otherwise we shouldn't see this.

JMO.

 

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Reposted from the prior thread as instructed:

Players start off by knowing spells: Do we get to pick the spells that we start with or is it randomly assigned?

I can also see that if the resources are 'very finite' extra care will have to be taken to make sure that they are somewhat evenly dispersed on the random map. Even if the generator is programmed to make sure some resources are near your starting position, if the general area that you are in is pretty sparsely decorated, you could end up playing for quite some time before you realize that you have a untenible game position. For example, if you are not near to a metals deposit in the game OR a magic shard, you might find it really hard to play your game (or if the AI starts in the same position, they will be very weak). In Civ, some resources would just appear over time so even a weak starting position could be a strong position later on as other resources made their appearance.

Just a thought.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I sure hope tactical combat looks much more epic than that screenshot suggests.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

"I’m 37 turns into my game and I have no armor items and my only decent weapon is a boar spear."

-ps quotes not working with forums

 

I never understood, why you build a forge after you get equipment (Arms/Armor) or get bows before building an Archery? Shouldn't arms/armor come from a forge or blacksmith?

 

 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

About diplomacy. One cool thing that I miss in strategy games is the ability to form alliances and then work together (with AI). For example make war plans together against a common enemy, or in elementals case maybe explore crypts and dungeons together.

I can see how this is hard to code but it would still be cool. :)

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting nitey47, reply 6

Quoting AngeloBraz, reply 2Should we be able to know the enemies' income and other info without spies or any other means to that info? Will the enemies always be an open book for us?

I agree here. Spies should be part of the Adventure Research Tree under Thieves Guild. Once you recruit a spy and successfully send him into one of the other kingdom/empires city you should get this info, otherwise we shouldn't see this.

JMO.

 

It could also be in the diplomacy tree as an Embassy. Having an embassy in the rival capital is one of the oldest ways to gather intelligence.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 5

Quoting strager, reply 3Speaking of Diplomacy - Can we still trade technologies? What about complex alliances (3 or 4 players forming some kind of group alliance etc.)? Outside of trading stuff what else can you do?

 

Also how is the dynasty system coming along? Been waiting to see the finalized version.
For v1.0, no.  The tech trading in GalCiv was never satisfactory and we are trying to avoid that here.  Buy beyond v1.0, anything is on the table.

 

Great! I hate tech trading in games, always feels like the A.I is cheating you out of techs.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Titanx3, reply 12

Quoting Frogboy, reply 5
Quoting strager, reply 3Speaking of Diplomacy - Can we still trade technologies? What about complex alliances (3 or 4 players forming some kind of group alliance etc.)? Outside of trading stuff what else can you do?

 

Also how is the dynasty system coming along? Been waiting to see the finalized version.
For v1.0, no.  The tech trading in GalCiv was never satisfactory and we are trying to avoid that here.  Buy beyond v1.0, anything is on the table.
 

Great! I hate tech trading in games, always feels like the A.I is cheating you out of techs.

 

i loved some of the crap the ai would try to trade for your good tech..."we will give you fishing for space travel wadda ya say :)" and then get mad when you laugh them out of the building :P(civ 4)

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

There's a typo in the "Message from Blumb" screenshot :(

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

"Combat & Conquest

The conquest technology tree continues to be an issue in the beta. Too long to get boring stuff. This is something that is high on our list to do something about.  It just takes way too long to get the conquest stuff going.

I’m 37 turns into my game and I have no armor items and my only decent weapon is a boar spear."

 

 

With more resources on the table, perhaps the available weapons/armor should be based more off of available resources than just tech. If you research swords, you should be able to forge swords from Iron, Bronze, Adamentium, Mythril, or whatever. It's just a matter of having the resource and perhaps the "smithy".

With that, each equipment tech would unlock the most basic (spears, leather) and than with the right combination of resources, you can get the nasty stuff.

Will there be any form of item creation in game? Will a sovereign be able to take that Iron Sword and transform it into an Iron Sword of Fiery Spice and give it to his son? Something like this might help you flesh out that spellbook - I know I saw something about having twice as many spells as you do now.

 

 

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 14
There's a typo in the "Message from Blumb" screenshot

Thinks so? :-"

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Magical System - Start spells

How about letting the player (custom sovereign) pick spells based on which magic books they have.

Spell Level vs. Character level

Therel doesn't seem to be a spell level vs. character level system, a level 1 user can learn and use the same spells as a level 5 character. I'm still not sure this is balanced, will be see a level 1 magic user be able to take down a level 10 magic user?

 

 


 


Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting LeBlaque, reply 16

Quoting Annatar11, reply 14There's a typo in the "Message from Blumb" screenshot

Thinks so?

Who are yous to argue with Blumb!

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting pad152, reply 17
Magical System - Start spells

How about letting the player (custom sovereign) pick spells based on which magic books they have.

Spell Level vs. Character level

Therel doesn't seem to be a spell level vs. character level system, a level 1 user can learn and use the same spells as a level 5 character. I'm still not sure this is balanced, will be see a level 1 magic user be able to take down a level 10 magic user?

AFAIK damage spells scale with the intelligence stat. A level 10 caster should be doing more damage with fireball then a level 1 caster, but a level 10 melee sovereign probably won't because they'll be investing in other stats instead.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Have defensive walls been completely eliminated?  If so is there any way to defend or provide a static defense for our buildings or cities other than confronting the invader with an army?

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Is there any plans to change the font to something more "Fantasy" like? Zoomed out map mode, diplomacy screen, pop-up messages etc.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

well i love where this is going, you guys have really changed the game for the better with the new economy.  i do have a couple of caveats though...

1. i understand the need to speed up combat, but don't make it so fast that you get stuff so quick that i don't have time to use it.  i don't want to get a dagger only to have a sword in 10 turns, then a magic sword ten more turns later.  each time you get something it should be an achievement and mean something.

2. i recommend the spell be given at random, maybe you get 3 random lower level spells and 1 medium powered spell per book.  take the MoM approach, its excellent.

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

speaking of diplomacy i hope we can mod alliances or different game types. Kingdom vs Empire would be satisfying, especially if we can see our ally's POV and units and their destinations

 

i think something as small as that would add depth more than JUST free for all

 

ps i hope someone mods that Diplomacy is already unlocked. it is very plain right now

 

keep up the work frogboy! must be nice seeing your game come alive before your eyes. be cool to show us all the specific things the fans suggested that really made the game whole and work

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CapnWinky, reply 21
Is there any plans to change the font to something more "Fantasy" like? Zoomed out map mode, diplomacy screen, pop-up messages etc.

I sure hope so. I don't like to read Word documents in my games with Times New Roman.

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

What is "diplomatic capital"?