I think it's funny how in literally, every game in existence people say things are "not really OP but everyone is terrible". 

heh.  Quite true. 

yea.. I can't take this thread seriously....

That exactly was my point that qot doesnt need to be on mana cose she doesnt need to level that much to rape you. Also oak is rarely get to mana solo as theres almost always an ub, tb or da in the team to take mana.

Are u not a decent player? you got raped in 2v2. And dont say your teamate was noob cose  after that game he played on my team and you still lost. Also the  "One" guys are pretty good and they got massacred...

Zex just stop coming to this thread then noone is making you read it and post on it.

I am guessing people don't know how to deal with an offensive QoT, because there haven't been many around lately.

1) Do not let your armor go into the negatives if she has an army. (nimoth + scale mail solves this problem)
2) Do not buy Narmoth's Ring late game, your late game choice is to pair Groffling + Nimoth. (often overlooked mistake vs Ground Spikes)

QoT really does not have good damage, she has abysmal damage.

Her skill burst is both the lowest damage and higest costing.
GS IV = 625 damage for 750 mana
SW II = 500 damage for 1000 mana

Seriously 1125 damage for 1750 mana IS WORSE THAN BAD.

Her minions have the absolute worst rate of fire and subsequently the lowest DPS by a long shot.

The only time she can crush you is when you armor goes below 0 because of how the mitigation scale works. If you get down to, say -500 armor and are being wailed on by 3 demigods and QoTs minions, you are going to die.

This is not to say offensive QoT isn't still the best way to play QoT in 3vs3.

But the tactic I always stick by is QoT on mana side, power leveling to 10, and trying to TP snare / spike gank as often as possible. Push hard as a team with ground spikes up the middle to end the game as soon as possible.

If you let the game go on long past level 12, your QoT is worthless vs people who know what to do.

Visca ill just say it like it is, I am sure you are a bad player and don't understand the game as much as most other people on this thread do. Making claims about queen being better then UB is idiotic. UB is the best demigod at all stages of the game and he is even better late game when he gets acclimation accompanied by a huge amount of hp. 

You can try to make an argument that UB isn't the best by saying something like "UB doesn't beat a rook 1v1" but whos stupid enough to lane solo vs a rook with ub anyway? 

Post some replays of you beating Orcun, renz, zengod, nnnils, pacov, Jona, pappanek, HerosTemp or anyone that is decent with your queen and that might make your argument some what credible. Throwing claims around without evidence just makes you look like a moron. 

too much hate man. you dont even know me come play with us sometimes you'd realise im not that far in skill from the players you mentioned even tho i dont have thousands of games like most "pros" do. And also what proof are you talking about? am i under investigation or something?:P

Ub best dg at all stages of the game? are you serious lol you saying ub cud beat ereb 1v1 at the beginning of the game. now that is just stupid. Also im 100% sure my queen wud beat an ub below level 8 any time every day.

We are just having a debate man. You dont have to agree but dont keep commenting negative comments. Im sure there are some ub players out there who cud rape my queen lategame easy. There are also players who cud beat with almost every dg 1v1 but that was not the point. All im saying is this build does the most or 2nd most damage lategame, hence the title " insane damage".

Thats it from me.  Now im gonna go and get wasted wish me good luck:P    Peace!

When I say proof I mean link some replays to this thread showing that you can beat a skilled UB late game with your queen. You can post replays at the Jeelounge website or at gamereplays.org 

As far as your second paragraph goes its just a poor attempt at trying to make UB seem bad. You can find some ambiguous example and try to paint it like it is the truth when in reality it happens very very infrequently and is negligible. 

As far as the UB vs Erebus match up I gave it my best effort against one of the best erebus players in the game a while ago. Ill link the replay. The game could of been mine if I got off one more tick of ooze before he batswarmed out but after that engagement I became flustered and gave up the first kill which in turn bought Renz giants. 

The replay is here: http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=168669

Zen_god and Jona both watched and me and Renz 1v1'd

As far as high level QoT play I think me and Rawrr are about the only two people that gave a serious try at it and we both came up with nearly the same build orders. I am sure there are replays floating around of both mine and his QoT play if you look for them. 

Neither Rawrrr nor I have ever made exclamations about QoT being better then UB at any point in our careers playing dg. 

Anything can beat ub if played right. Almost beat rook ub with reg queen. and guess what ppapanek was the rook.  Point is this game is very balanced. Only problem I see are the items and spirits mowing down the citadel without taking damage.

Also, almost lost against da rook when orcun was ub and i was occulus.

Not if UB is also played right. Some characters can but anything includes Reg, TB, DA who don't have a chance

No you didn't

That's a Korean DA though, they cheat.  

qft

heh

maybe i got the replay somewhere, but reg queen burst down an enemy over 5k damage lol, plus the slow

Why did you bring this up? I only meant early game when i said ereb wud win..and that is if both players are equally skilled. Obviously renz is just a better and thats all-.-And i was only reacting to your comment that ub is best every stage of the game, i just gave u 1 example that this isnt true

Ive seen 4 nanas (Rawr), queen in action. Dunno about you but he plays entirely different build from me. I play a much more agressive qot and im pretty sure you guys havent tried this build.

I'd be quite surprised if you came up with a build that folks haven't tried here before.  That said, the thing with QoT is that not many people end up maining her for long that are skilled and therefore there isn't much diversity in builds.  Full support qot, no shield qot, minion QoT, builds that use mulch and those that do not, etc.  I wouldn't mind hearing what build you are toying with.  The last person I recollect that put in some time into developing a QoT build was in1 - and he seemed to focus on grabbing tribute at 15. 

Tribute? lol so useless. So heres some info on my build. I dont get mulch, shield, uproot at all and shamblers only after level 15

So what im focusing on is moral, spike wave, groundspike and compost. I know compost is useless but at least it costs no mana. I get demolishers first and then the other minions asap and a helmet, then unbreakable, boots of speed and fell-darkur.Even with only monks and demolishers im doing huge damage, and the reason is that other demigods just dont ahve the armour except for maybe ub. 5 ranged unit attacking while the enenmy armour is down is kinda annoying. The perfect harrassing unit, rook push is easly stopped buy this build(yes rook with vial). In fact no unit can hold his ground on  the lane im on. Many player dont realise how fast i can take their hp down and as a reason they stay our for too long i just have to chase them down with spike wave and boots. Its very fun to play this build for people who like to dominate early game and mid game. That being said you need to be good with micro otherwise this build doesnt work. I dont see qot has any other build that works this well against strong demigods

So your going a minion QoT with NO shamblers only idols you have NO ability to survive a direct engagement because you don't take shield or mulch so basically you die to any sort of burst damage. 

I guess ill have to see a replay because there is just no way that this could possibly work. 

I didn't lose to erebus early game the game was even until the first kill which happened significantly later than early game, watch the replay. Renz is a good player but I wouldn't classify him as just being better then me. I find there are a group of players at the top of the play level that are basically the same skill level and me and renz fit in that group nicely. 

That's my general take as well.  But that said, it can serve quite a bit of a purpose late game (as long as the game drags on a bit after you hit lv 15).  Even then, it does cost more than a few ability points which has pretty much always outweighed its value to me. 

I'm curious to how useful you found compost to be - will have to take a look at the specs on that again at some point. I do find the no shamblers until 15 a bit interesting for a minion focused build, but even that said - if what you are doing is working, more power to you.  One of my builds might be crap in someone else's hands, but work like a charm for me - as I know how to play that style.

That's the absolute beauty of QoT.  Take her too lightly and she can eat you up quite quickly - same goes for spirit oak.  Doesn't look insanely powerful until you start getting hit... only with QoT, its quite a bit worse and quite a bit faster.

Anyway, I too would be curious to see how this sort of build/play style held up in a game with the expert folks (eg folks that would try to counter you instead of running in like a goof 1v1 and getting torn to shreds along with folks that were able to complement your play style). 

Just curious - so have you settled into a static build w/ regards to your ability progression, or are you still adjusting on the fly based on need, etc?

The reason i dont do shamblers is because i simply dont need them. I do so much damage even without them that im just too lazy to get hem before i max out spikes and moral. Thats the point of my build. I sacrifice everything for my offensive play. The point of this play is that you do more damage and faster then the enemy. And i do just that, So even if i get into a close combat im  the one who gets you down more quickly. This works with ub as well below level 10.

Yea minion oak is alrgiht but im just having so much more fun with minion queen. much more fun to play. minion oak can be frustrating to play early game. anyway my build does more damage then a regular minion oak build im 100% of that.(till level 15 anyway)

My build greatly depends on early kills or assist and if i have to buy cur or not. If i get kills i  get spike waves  and shamblers earlier and no compost but always pick ground spikes asap

A good minion Oak doesn't ever have to let you hit him with ground spikes.  He just has to come close enough for a pentinence every now and then and stand back while his spirits eat you which will take about 7 seconds after level 10 since you don't have mulch or shield.  Even before that point, it only takes 3 levels of spirits + demolishers before minion oak can start shredding towers.  

do you ever lead a combat with spike wave for the slow?  Just curious as to how you are opening.  Ground spike once they are in range or snare then spike, etc. 

And wat makes think you can hit me with pentinence but i cant hit you with groundspikes.Also  spike wave has a huge range and once i hit you, you cant run away

Open with spike wave so it makes it harder for him to get in close range. Straight after spike wave i hit him with groundspikes and usually once he realises hes gonna die i can hit him with spike wave one more time so he cant run away. If u use this tactic u rarely have to go into close combat if your micro is good. That is ofc if ur enemy is not an ereb and has no journeys.

Because you'll use ground spikes to try to stop the mass of spirits that are killing you and once I see that I'll come in and pop you one then take off.  At that point you're already half dead so even if you catch me with spike wave you won't be chasing me too far, and if you don't turn around then I can come back in for another pen to finish you off since you have no defensive abilities to stay in the fight and like 3500 hp with your boots of speed + gloves of darkur.  You sound like you've only seen tower killing minion oaks, not demigod hunting minion oaks.  

Mass of spirits? are we talking about late game when there are no towers to take spirits down. I dont really get how your spirits wud be killing me while you just walk in and hit me with pen. I dont see that happening. If your spirits are on me and i cant see where you are i wud just stand near tower to finish them and if there are no towers then we talkin about late game and the game shud be finished by then. Also spirits by themselves dont do that much damage compared to my idols.

Hey - I started compiling some of the dmg stats of minions and I'll post something here when I get a chance, but I think based on what you are trying to do with your build that you should make exactly 1 change very early to maximize the damage you can do.  Do everything as you have been, but for your level 1 skill, choose shamblers.  Immediately summon both of them, then get your siege and play like you normally do.  You'll have to wait until level 2 for ground spike, so just take your time and farm for a wave or 2 if needed.  You actually should keep playing like you do and don't re-summon the shamblers if they die (unless you are at the crystal), but as the goal of your build is massive damage/kiting, you will want the shamblers there (even if they die a bit early).  I think once you see the numbers you will agree... but it does bump your dmg per second up a bit and you will have a bit more early killing/staying power in a lane. 

I know you don't feel like you need shamblers, but once you see the numbers, I think you'll agree that you want them earlier.  I did a few test games and the chance for a kill jumps up quite a bit before you get spike waves and increases throughout. 

Or just quickly consider that you have an ability that can drop armor into the negative - the more minions you have hitting when that happens, the more dmg you can do.  Shamblers are kinda crap, but if you just count on them for a few extra hits here and there early, I think you'll find them quite useful - as long as you can resist re-summoning them early as they aren't anywhere near as valuable as a ground spike or getting your other minions back.

And if you don't know or don't play like this - you should consider doing so - switch forms when you either don't have enough mana for spike or aren't using abilities/attacking.  In closed form you regen mana faster and have additional armor.  So, like a good tb, switching forms in between action is a smart move.  Try it if you have not been.

edit - I still see a pretty big weakness to this build that I think folks could counter if they thought about it much.  A reg, even not one that was in the same lane with you, could probably back you down effectively.  Speed fire tb could probably do the same.  Erb, like you mentioned earlier, could cause you some trouble.  A hybrid or minion oak could like do the same.  Anyway, I think the full dmg spec QoT can certainly serve a good purpose for early lane control and potential late game pain against quite a few dgs, so its certainly good stuff.  I'm just wondering if there is any good counter with a build like this and a reg snipe spamming, etc.  Early snipe spam would force you to back down without much regen, etc... which would kill your leveling... which would kill the build a bit.  Anyway, that's the type of stuff I think about when builds get discussed.  How would I beat it.  And I'm thinking I'd just go speed fire tb or reg (reg would be easier).

Still - fun stuff.  Hope you keep working on the build and come up with something quite badass.

If you do come up with a game where you feel like it was good against pretty decent opponents and your build worked well, please post a replay.  I'm sure a few of us would check it out.