official thread derailment:

the new topic is 

Matthew McConaughey

(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000190/)

great actor or greatest actor of all time?

I dont really pay attention to actors in movies, but Mel Gibson was in a lot of my favorite movies (passion of the christ...not in this list of course!). I wouldn't say hes the greatest, but yeah.

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM

Almost as much as people that don't understand DPS per skill point is irrelevant?

Oh, really?

K you have fun with spending half your skill points into uproot and compost.  I'm sure you'll be unstoppable.

no, Innociv is right to consider skill point efficiency. thats an important one. however, this thread is not particularly about different builds of Queen of Thorns. i'm sure there are several ways to effectively use Compost and Uproot and still have a good QoT. personally I tend to use a Shambler/Bramble Shield/Entourage build when I play the Queen though but I don't claim thats the best build. I mostly use Oak anyway, so I'm not so qualified to answer. 

but we're getting off topic. back on point

better performance

Sahara (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318649/) or Reign of Fire(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0253556/)

Ooooo... tough choice.  I mean, is he mostly shirtless in both?  For what it's worth, Reign of Fire had me go out and buy the Mad at Gravity CD (that's a compact disk!).

Vote goes to: RoF

I completely agree. I can't stand UB. Needs to be nerfed to hell and back. I hate that fucking demigod. He's uninteresting, and he's absolutely cheap. Everytime I fight on Pantheon as forces fo light the Dark side ALWAYS has a fucking UB. SO stupid. Spit needs it's range reduced and needs it's damaged to be more spread out.

I wasn't aware that there were this many UB threads before I made mine (I mostly saw the Erebus complaint threads before).

Anyway, as I said in my other threads, I consider UB to be so broken that I leave the lobby whenever I see anyone playing him.

Hope Stardock/GPG responds to all these balancing complaints soon!

Looks like someone got owned in pantheon and suck at this game. Lets nerf a demigod to make us feel better because we don't know anything about gaming in general!

Um, no cunt. I'm just tired of logging into Pantheon and fighting the same Demigod over and over again and witnessing the same cheap tactics... over and over again. It's not fun... it's boring... and considering most Demigods are fairly weak in early game, Ub has advantage. And since UB easily dominates early game, he controls the late game as well, since you're not able to get enough exp or gold as he is and his levels are probably high.

Translation: Wahh i suck I got owned by a UB im a newbie I dont know how to play this game nerf plzzzz

You don't nerf demigods to overcompensate for skill. Just to contradict your shittyness, I've never had a problem against UB's. You just suck.

Wow, two angry, inflamatory and demeaning replies on two separate occations to one of my posts? That's some heavy duty bitterness you have there. I hope you're not taking it out on your pets.

Yes, I did get "owned" and I posted about it in another thread. It's not that I lost, it's that I got steamrolled, while at the same time I can handle most of the other demigods quite well.

I'm not going to dignify the second part of your sentence with an answer.

Yes, I am a newbie, but I post because I've played enough now to notice a pattern where, again, I can handle myself pretty well against the rest of the demigods, but I'm having great, geat troubles with the UB in particular.

Now, the consensus seems to be that the UB is deadly early in the game, but perhaps not as much later in the game, so I will have to see if I can verify this and adjust my tactics accordingly.

Also, I might take back my earlier statement to never play against an UB player, and rather switch to the Rook instead, which apparently has it easier than Regulus against him.

Okay, I'll stop being a dick and try to explain this. Because in all technicalities, I am a newbie as well.

Okay, but in the current form of pantheon, theres no real 'pattern,' if you will. It's a bunch of players like yourself picking a class and trying to carry a team. There isn't much team work associated with it. Theres a TEAM pantheon coming soon, where real strategy and good TEAMS will be playing, that would probably steam roll ANY normal arrangement of random pantheon teammates, no matter who they get.

You see the fallacy in your logic that I'm trying to mock with my derogatory posts. You lose to one class so your first assumption was to nerf it, based off of YOUR experience. YOUR experience is based on YOUR skill. While other people here are claiming he needs to be nerfed based on THEIR experience, there are many other players who have had much DIFFERENT experiences. Like I said, theres no way to really compete experience vs experience until a team pantheon, or more team tournaments come out to see an actual 'pattern' of demigods that tend to rape. At this point, not many people have any idea how to play the leet strategies that rock their demigod. Not myself, not any of the beta testers. A lot of them may have it down to a science at this point, but theres still so much more to learn.

The conensus seems to be that every demigod can be deadly early when the players know how to play it. I'm not going to lie, UB isn't rocket science. That doesn't mean he deserves to be nerfed though. Theres ways to play against it, and thats where knowing your demigod comes in to play. However, I can't really debate you on this because you're doing exactly what you should be doing, which is trying something else.

Well, Rook is probably a much better demigod to play against UB, considering regulus is UB's bitch. But, don't think that you changing your demigod is what's going to do it. It's a team game. Your teammate needs to play to counter UB as well. Obviously, you cant control what your teammate does because it's a pantheon with random people, so it falls back to what I explained in the first quoted reply.

i'll say it two ways, first in the good old fashioned stand-by of internet forums:

its fine, lern 2 play.

second, the way reasonable adults would say it:

the game has a learning curve. the single hardest thing to figure out is which fights you can expect to win and which you cannot. almost everyone who is complaining of dying to UB is making the same mistake. they are over-extending because they underestimate the damage dealing abilities of a Demigod that is focused almost entirely on rapid damage dealing abilities. 

experience will help you learn when you have overextended and you will stop making the mistake of walking into a Beast ready to kill you. in the mean time i suggest just playing MUCH more conservatively. don't stray too far from your towers or partners. be aware that UB will try to draw you out and ambush you once you've overextended, its the primary strategy of that DG and its particularly easy to get inexperienced players to walk right into it. 

I agree that it would be best to change spite to melee skill, because i have understood that UB is a melee class. And that spite is quite good ranged skill so after they nerfed Lord Erebus so bad (im still playing Lord Erebus) UB have rised to class who everyone hate to play against and everyone want to play with that because its so good on every period of the game and its quite easy to play. I know that Lord Erebus´ bite is very annoying too but they nerfed that, so why would they not nerf UB too ? I´m not saying that i hate UB´s but the thing what annoys me is the dmg and the range of the spite. 

Nerf spite a bit and everyone is happy !

Not at all. If you take away Spit then you'll effective disable Unclean Beast for multiplayer.

First off, it's useful to identify Venom Spit's limitations. They are very significant. Primarily this is a long term damage over time attack. The damage is extremely low if it's cured quickly. Many counters exist: Sedna's heals, Oak's shield, Orb of Defiance, QoT Shield, a healing crystel, favor items, etc... Counter the dot and the attack doesn't deal high damage. In fact Spit is a huge liability if it's countered because of it's second limitation: Venom Spit is extremely expensive to use.

Venom Spit costs almost 1000 mana when maxed out. Compare this to Fireball at just 540 mana, which also deals all damage up-front and has a longer range. Or compare to Penitance at lust 750 mana, which also deals up-front damage at longer range, plus it slows and allows for more incoming damage. The mana cost makes Spit prohibitive from being used often. You CAN'T use Spit against someone who can counter it easily, or else you're wasting a ton of mana. Good players know this. I always wait until Sedna or Oak waste a heal before I Spit. And good Sedna/Oak players are waiting on their heal until after the UB player wastes his Spit. Determining the right time for each power is like a mini-game that dictates who wins the combat.

Compare the attacks I listed again: Fireball, Penitance, and Venom Spit. There's plusses and minuses for all three attacks, but Spit is by far the most limited. It's got the lowest range and highest mana cost. Sure, it works great on newbies who are too ignorant to know how to counter it. But once you know what you're doing it's the worst 'ranged' attack possible. Penitance is leaps and bounds better online since you can exploit it so easily. And Fireball can be used much more often without worrying about cancelling the damage. It's only limited by a slowish cast time.

Venom Spit is already balanced today by it's own limitations. If this was a melee attack it would have to cost dramatically less mana and deal most damage up-front. And you'd probably have to replace it with some sort of ranged attack for balance. Otherwise Unclean Beast would have no way to deal with ranged enemies like Regulus and Torch Bearer in multiplayer.

man i love playing TB.  Easy enough for a noob to handle but still can kick some arse.

  TBs fireball spell is all at once and front end.   UBs spit is over a period of time so its not really useful for damage spiking people.  Also UBs spit is fairly easy to remove for an experianced player.  Also im not sure on this but it feels like TBs fireball range is better but UBs spit is long too so I dont know for sure. 

   back to UB i rarely play UB but any demigod with the exception of just a couple can be very powerful if handled right.  

and for this spit + ooze + stun combo people are talking of these things take a commitment to level up and this combo alone is incredibly mana intensive.

Since I know at least two Unclean Beast the Patriots (one of them being me) who don't take spit beyond level 1, I'd say case is over.

From looking at the OP it seems that he must have played players that simply didn't know what they are doing.  If you claim that UB is overpowered please provide us with the health of you/your enemy as a reference.  If you kill someone with 4k health he's definately not doing things right.

UB is not overpowered at all, if you still think so my anti-UB guide in the pinned section on the top of the strat forums might help a bit, but here's some more tips.

Basically, UB is good for one thing: killing stuff.  He's the worst demigod against buildings as well.  If you are able to beat him 1 vs 1 you will make him worthless the entire game.  Just get some good health and health regain items and you are set, as this negates spit and part of ooze's damage.  (Although pure ooze is way more damaging imo)  Armor against UB is WORTHLESS compared to health.  If you have 4k health but tons of armor you will die quickly when spit does 1500 damage to you at max rank, because it will do 1500 damage no matter how much armor you have.  If you have 7k health you are definately in the clear. 

A spit and run UB is hilarious because he's stacked speed and mana items instead of health or armor, which means he doesn't stand a chance if he tries to close it to melee.  Therefore, if you have some good health and health regain items he will spit and run a ton before you actually feel the affects. If you are against an ooze UB, it's all about doing as much damage as fast as possible because of his low health.  Basically, the more health you have the better you are against UB, armor doesn't do much.

If you are a general:  GET HEALERS.  (I usually get clerics and then bishops later on)  When I see a general character without healers, it really gets to me.  Healers are good against everything UB throws at you.  It will negate a ton of spit damage and make playing against spit and run UBs even more hilarious, and it will help a lot with ooze as well as your healers actually do okay damage and heal you constantly.  (Healers have really high health too, but UB can kill both of them, at least an ooze UB, in about 8 seconds but you have that much "free" time if he goes for them)

As an assasin:

If you are a tower rook or TB/regulus they both easily deal with UB.  Rook because of his high health, and if he has towers UB is horrible against structures.  Regulus and TB shouldn't fight anyone 1 vs 1 anyway unless they have some great items or unlocked abilities.  (They both get really powerful late game)

Against good players, I know the only way I get really high kill counts is being ninja with teleport scrolls against squishy demigods and/or plain outgearing people. 

So if you think UB is overpowered because you dominated/got dominated, check your health/the health of the opposing team.

It's fun to see how many people crying about UB spit, "Oh god he spit me, now I'm gonna run or die". Well understand this spit is good for low levels DG and useless againts counters (3 of 8 demigods has counters on spit). So instead of whining about UB overpowered, teammate with others DG stuck some regen items, and never ever go on 1on1 with UB especialy with such gay like TB...

P.S. To all spit UB users, what you gonna do when Erebus come for you?

Have a Regulus standing buy with Marks and Mines.

Because if there's an UB in the field, I as a Regulus am not running around alone...

This is a good example of you just plain outplaying the other player. Yea UB is great, but im sure a TB with the right gear who knows what hes doing can kill him too. With circle of fire down and a fire nova thats pretty high damage, then a 1350 fireball could be enough to finish it.

I have enough HP to survive the burst damage from a well made TB at level 20 by level 5 (as UB). Granted, he'd kill me with autoattacks, but I could freely sit in the circle of fire, take the fire nova, take the fireball, and still be alive. Plus most of those skills are easily interrupted (and besides, ice nova + shatter + ice rain + fireball does more damage than fire nova, fireball, and fire circle, especially if you autoattack once before the shatter wears off and even more especially if your opponent isn't stupid enough to sit in the circle of fire for 10 seconds).

Basically, your TB build isn't even a good one for killing other creatures (you get more effects + more damage from an ice build; pure fire is good for taking on generals and towers, and that's it), and even with a good one HP stacking makes UB tough to kill with it even early on.

Normally, as UB, I'm not afraid of any Assasin at all unless he's some levels above me or he has company. They can stack HP but so do I, and if I can spit and engage at say, at a middle flag on Cataract they have to run or die. Actually I never seem to have problems against Assassins. It's the Generals that are a pain. Well, good players playing them. Mid-late Oak is baaad news, Sedna, I can't kill her alone, neither QoT bramble shielding again and again while the other DG pounds me. Let's not talk about master escapist Erebus with the best spit counter. Often I just find myself locking the flag before I gtfo to an adjacent lane.

Spit damage is mitigated by HoT effects, but fireball is straight damage.