Demigod Forums
Hi guys,
I think atm, stacking HP Items is much too strong, specially vs. a Torchbearer. Compared to gloves (DPS) HP Items are just imba.
All I ever hear is: nerf, nerf, nerf. How about buffing some of the gloves instead? I like buffs better than nerfs...
I too would like to see hp + hp regen cut by up to 50%.
Health stacking is just way way way too powerful compared to any other tactic.
That being said, HP stacking is the only way to really survive against mines or multilple opponents so I'm not in favor of nerfing it.
It depends on the demigod you play really, if you're a rook you need to have a lot of health or you will die faster than you can say WTF.
Why when people cant win against some DG they always searching problems in items and disbalance and not in their play-style and tactics used ?
To modify the game to where health stacking was substantially weaker, but burst damage didn't instapwn everyone and +dmg didn't enable your character to play itself...would probably require more time and energy than GPG can afford to spend. Sorry mate, the game's playable, just stack HP for now :/.
A good way to deal with it would be to just increase the HP of all demigods by ~15%. There, nerfed health items, buffed damage items...
If hp items were inline with other items noone would buy them. Why make yourself last longer when you can just kill your enemies faster and stop taking damage all together? That will be the new wisdom to item buying if the rediculus nerfs (50%!?) people are suggesting go into effect. Not to mention in group situations +health/armor items only affect the dg getting hit and not the other 1 or 2 dgs that are left allone.
They need to add a way to reduce incoming ability damage. Then they can reduce HP item potency.
As it is it's an ability spamfest so you must get HP to survive.
Actually I agree that HP items need to be toned down, or starting health needs to be increased. It is very unnewb friendly that you can have about as many 'bonus' hit points at level 1, as you starting ones. Honestly, how many new players just don't know to buy a few HP items early on, and run around with 2k or less hit points for faaar too long?
Yeah seriously. Run to the center of cataract at the start of the match. The noob's hero has 1k life. The people who know what they're doing have 2200+.
What exactly are you supposed to do against that kind of inequity? It's not like buying gloves instead of HP in the beginning is going to make your autoattack do twice as much to compensate.
The OP is a troll right?
Because if he's serious here it's just more evidence of how the Internet has KILLED the gaming community. Back when there were games like Bard's Tale we didn't get together with our friends and say stuff like:
"Hey, have you played Bard's Tale?"
"Yeah, how about that Scroll of Improved Wisdom."
"Man, that thing is waaaay overpowered."
"Yeah, the devs should really fix that."
NO, we said:
"Hey, have you played Bard's Tale?"
"Yeah, AWESOME game!!!"
These days people want to create their own games but not by doing it themselves. They want to find a game they like then needle and pick at the game design on the forums hoping the devs will change it according to their every whim.
agreed. it makes the game boring. fights take too long, then reflexes/skills are not needed as much in fights.
I'm in favor of this because as torchbearer i have a hard time killing an opponent just stacks health. Anything over 6000 is pretty much unkillable if the person is decent endgame. And i've seen 5k's at level 8. While as torchbearer i maybe can do half that before i have to run. I can't stack health because if i do then i lose mana which is my dps and i die anyway.
I play torch bearer. I don't really struggle to kill people with a ton of hp. I play Ice mode and try to constantly be attacking from range with my ice buffed auto attack. It's easier if we are in a creep lane cuz I can rain of ice his creeps and let mine add some extra damage to the enemy once they all focus on him. It's a slow process thats all about harassment.
Super super late game though, Torch bearers are decent demigod killers, but awesome creep killing assets. People never seem to think of the fact that its a lot harder to overwhelm a tb with creep upgrades...They always just look at his 1v1 ability.
Demigod isn't about killing heros guys, particularly since most people play conquest. It's about killing the citadel by whatever means possible. An unclean beast with ashkandor couldn't stop 10 giants at a time like a tb could.
Sure, healthstacking is good. But it doesn't take any skill away from the game. Just deal with it.
At level 7 with a good team and some light feeding my Oak can have 5500 hp for 5300 gold.
Here are the items he uses (courtesy of demigoddb.com):
+2900 Health
He hits 6000 hp at level 11, with no further expenditure. That's endgame in most cases, but if we take it to level 18 he comes within 20 points of 7000 hp.
He gets 25 hpps regen from those items too.
+25 Health Per Second
We haven't considered armor at all - that item build at level 7 has 8250 armor-modified hp. At level 18 he has 11,300 AM HP.
You can do this with every DG, they all become really hard to kill, and they can all do it for little more than 5k gold.
A total item rehaul would be nice but it's dubious - the simplest way to fix HP stacking is to increase the price of HP items on the low end by about a third.
Quick examples of the new prices:
Unbreakable Boots - 2500g
Banded Armor - 750g
Nimoth Chest Armor - 2500g
And I'd make Blood of the Fallen a flat 20% HP increase so that it stays powerful but scales better. To give an idea of what I mean - TB at level one has 1410hp. If he takes Blood it gives him a 56% hp increase right out the gate. That's too much too early.
That means you can still buy your hp items but you actually have to pay for them now, and it gives DPS stacking relative value while keeping nukers in the game
Someone suggested the concept of "diminishing returns" for the stacking of items, I think that is something of a reasonable concept that addresses your gripe. In an RPG, the plausibility of outrageously powerful characters is sort of part of the game, in fact, it's part of the appeal, fantasy life=RPG. RPG's, and by corrolary this one, is premised upon imbalances, which is odd for a short, online competitive game. It is something like an RTS as well, and premising an RTS on imbalances is seems like a bad idea, the game does lack any "normalizing" forces. Things that keep the game competitve even upon serious levelling/income/what-have-you by one or the other team.
Maybe if more or most HP items just increase by a % of your base? So they can become stronger as the game goes, but not so amazingly 'swinggy' at the beginning of the game?
I feel the strength of +HP items diminishes the usefulnes of burst dmg abilities and instead makes the game revolve around stuns and slows. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what poeple find fun.
Oh i have no trouble killing the noobs who run into a burst damage TB but those people who know when to run and how to play are practically unkillable. Expecially UB and Oak.
Game doesn't even revolve around stuns as much as slows. It's practically get auto attacked run back and force their auto attack to move them closer to you into tower range then auto attack back as they run because towers mauled them. If you get a slow in there they normally are as good as dead. And the strength of HP items dimishes the usefulness of PRACTICALLY everything except slows and speed. Because when you run low on HP you just run with speed and regain it. And slows kill you. Abilities are pretty much right now slowdowns and some quick finishing burst damage. Auto-attack is pretty much hit and run ranged. Early game UB's don't do much more than Auto-attack creeps and spit and run against DG's unless they are ooze UB.
Agreed. They can swing the game way too much in the begining. Normally the really early level 1-3 is the most important part. A few early deaths on your team there can swing the game. But with health stacking it takes TOO LONG to kill someone. With 3k health at level 3 and only doing 150's every 1.5 seconds. Even the largest damage ability which is spit only does around 650 damage. Sure the endgame is important but an early lead here can give you a boost. No boost in the begining just pushes that boost point to later which is level 10 or so. The rest is just farming and a few deaths. Then at level 10 it's try and gank people as often as possible and delay priests til as late as possible. Because ganking is the only way to kill someone with 5k health with abilities that do only maybe 100 dps as long as you have mana.
Sure we've all solo killed but thats because they either started low or made a mistake.
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