a bit off topic form the current magic debate, is it possible for a enemy unit to raze a resource tile that is not directly attached to a city? i saw its possible to lose a city this way but what about a resource tile with in your influence. if so, can we assign a unit to protect it? maybe even fortify it?

I strongly disagree with this we should be allowed to choose and please no BLIND research.

Divine magic does not fit the ethos, though I'm sure it could be modded in.

that said, one thing I think is lacking is medicine or some other tech/spell to heal things up quicker.

Spell Points will be useful later on I think for tactical battles.

What is 'SoaSE?'

I fullheartedly support this statement.

Nice Idea :

1. Make minerals(resources) apear in the map after we research the technology
2. Do not have the technology as an option to pick if we dont have the specific minerals(resources) in our region...

why? 

Because you cant research something which you cant hold in your hands.. (How can you learn to make iron shords without having iron or another metal.)

I dont know much about how shards (i am not in the beta) work but this could also be applied to the spells they are used for..

(this could not happen in Civ cos you would have to pick what to research... In real life(or in a fantastic world hehe) your subject of research changes as you research. An example : If someone doesnt know what iron is.. how can he make a desicion beforehand to research for it.)

You aren't researching new technology, you are recovering lost technology. The tiles that generate research are called lost libraries. You're learning to use things lost to the trials of time and the end of the world. With regard to civ, there was nothing more irritating than researching something only to find out all the deposits of the necessary resource were outside your territory. If the deposits are on the map beforehand you're not going to research something that specifically requires a resource you do not have. Blindly researching things in the hopes that they appear within our grasp is annoying at best.

I'm guessing Sins of a Solar Empire

You are right about researching, so just replace this world with recover.. (recovering is also researching check the archaiologists but anyway...)

I think you didnt undestand what i am proposing... the problems you mentioned about Civ will not exist with my proposal and the current system this game uses for RECOVERING(researching).

You will always research on resources you have but will not be able to see the resource till you do the research. (it is recursive somehow but the randomness used in the system of research used by this game makes it happen)

I think this will create a new dimension on 'border' wars

And the title of mister clueless passes over to Bellack.

Ahem, not to spoil the fun of being oblivious or anything, but do you know that research IS HALF-BLIND in this game? Anything but most basic techs MAY appear on the breakthrough list and you never know which ones will not. As a matter of fact there is research that you aren't even being informed about until you get lucky.

***

Random generation works if it is well made. From what I see in Elemental, it only needs tuning not reworking.

What's the point of hiding the resources if techs only unlock when you've got them within your territory? If I can't research Ironworking, I know I don't have iron, if I can research beekeeping, there are bees somewhere in my territory. I see no reason to hide resources from the player while at the same time limiting the technology they can research to hidden things under their influence. Why not keep resources visible so you can more easily plan city placement and limit research to the things you control?

Some random thoughts...

At the beginning, placament of Cities will be based on obtaining as much territory as possible... as you dont know where the resources are...

in the middle of the game, you start to specialize your cities based on the resources that you know are near.... You also try to place new cities in such a way that your territory riches near important resources that you know...

What i am proposing doesnt cause problems on the placement of cities because now all that matters is territory..

Because the research is random, if the option ironworking doesnt come out, you dont know you dont have iron, (but you might guess that you dont...

                                              if beekeeping comes out, you know that you have bees. An EVIL developer would give the non existance of bees a very small possibility.(Mouahahaha......) when the research pops up.

Most importantly, you dont know the position of unknown resources while your opponent might do know..

I agree with psycoravin on the spell research matter. What i propose is removing some information we have, thus making the game more difficult and more fun.

You're not in the beta so I'll give you a free pass on the random research thing, but it's not truly random research. Everything has a chance of showing up, when you research your first ranks of civic technology you will have a pretty static list with maybe a few rares to choose from if you're lucky. Things such as working with iron, markets, lumbermills, and farming will always be choices when you're researching, they are "green" techs, "yellow" techs are a bit more rare and random, while "red" techs are the rarest, once your possible list of techs to get each level is only red techs there is a chance you get nothing at all.

If basic things such as metalworking (with iron) or lumbermills, markets, schools, monasteries, were missing from your tech list you'd know exactly what was missing from your territory. Blindly expanding in the hopes that you gain access to an invisible resource you can't see until you've already got it wouldn't be difficult, it would just be an annoyance.

Question- should essence-costing spells be allowed to provide some resources or switch resources , like alchemical magic- iron to gold for example?

I am sure the developers could optimize the green yellow red system on the basis of obscuring information but even if they dont or cant effectively, I think technology should be a factor on what to see when you expand.. i think its fun...

This will make 'research vs expansion' a difficult choice...

shards are also  resources and spell learning could use my system too.

-EDIT-

Some resources could be semi hidden.. example: You see some ruins.. It could be a temple, a library or nothing importand like an Old mill... Do you build a city near to claim the ruins?

Yes!  See now spells like that is what essence should be used for, provided they get it Essence balance.

Transmutes like that, would allow you to change the very shape of your game, and would be very fitting of essence level spells.

Spells like:

Raise Ruin(random or picked library/temple)

Gold > Iron, or Iron > gold

Enhance Metal/Wood(Old growth to ythril, iron to ventri)

Those are both choices, and powerful. And could cost like 8 essence and still be worth it in the case of enhance.

Any word on possible release today? Hope Hope!

They said earlier it was supposed to be out yesterday or today.  Usually Stardock delivers when they say that, but not always.

I'll have to work a double tonight , so I'll check at midnight when I go in.  Usually Stardock patches hit in the evening. 

It's a lot better then Valve Time at least, or Paradox's "it will be ready when it's ready"

I saw a few posts from Frogboy that it would be out today, nothing on when though.

Frogboy posted in the "Maybe Today?" thread (that was posted yesterday) that it would actually be today. But, don't expect it until later in the afternoon and quite possibly later evening since they're cramming it.

Thanks everybody, just trying to decide if I want to blow town for the weekend  or stay here and BUG hunt!

Just a thought here.. but what about making wisdom provide spell points (maybe 2-3 per point of wisdom) and a very slight bonus to mana regen (maybe +1 per 8 points). Essence allows you to cast higher tier spells and also increases spell regen (maybe +1 per 5 points). Essence is NOT tied to any stat at character creation. Instead the sovereign starts with 5 or 10 (depending on how much essence spells require) and can gain an additional 5 by choosing one of the character traits (probably in the same section where you would choose if he is a warrior, royalty, etc). Additionally you could add a bonus to spell regen as one of the point cost traits for 5 or 10 points for a +50% mana regen bonus. Sitting in a city with a spell point producing building should vastly improve spell point regeneration (by 250%), as well as choosing an option to 'meditate' in the field for a +100% bonus. Erm to clarify the point cost of the +50% mana regen, it should be 5 points if it is additive, 10 points if multiplicative.

A high wisdom caster could then cast multiple spells in combat but have a fairly long recharge. A high essence caster could cast one big spell, but have a shorter cooldown on his next casts. A high intelligence caster could cast multiple smaller, but more devastating spells. On a side note, I think most spells require 'too much' essence. It's pretty much a requirement to raise it every level even if you start at 15. I agree with the idea that it should increase automatically every few levels independant of other stats. HP should also increase the same way, and constitution is merely a modifier of total HP.

I'm not crazy about arcane/divine/psionic etc. in the core game, but it would make a lot of sense to have the "key stat" that determines a spell's power be a flag that can be easily altered for purposes of modding. 

Yeah, although I could see Divine/Mental/Other being great xpack items. There was an Armageddon, so chances are some civilizations got totally isolated with no shards and had to make do.

Arcane however is imo just general non-typed magic, like levin bolts, majick missiles, Tenser's exploding barrage and such :}