Striving for a better community than Dota. » Forum Post by StAcK3D

I would be careful and maybe even think twice about a Karma system...Savage 2 had one and all it ended up turning out to be was a way for sore losers to "pay back" the winners of the game.

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Quoting Renevent,

reply 23

"May I point out the inherent contradiction in using that as a counter-argument, ArnieDude?"

Because it is on the expense of someone else, and is a intentional act.

A person who is new and may make mistakes is not intentionally ruining the game for you. You and people like you, are intentionally taking your frustrations out on another person and trying to ruin their experience.

I mean seriously dude...does the concept of "playing nice" really have to be explained to you? I thought we all learned this stuff in pre-school.

Ok please relay back to me what you think I said in your own words because I'm beginning to think someone must be poisoning my water. I'm fairly sure I did not say what you apparently think I did.

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Read both of your posts above my initial response to you...what I said was spot on regarding your attitude towards gaming and the people you encounter online.

Good day.

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@levelheaded, you say this:

"Seriously, dude. learn to chill. You cannot go haywire, in game or life, everytime someone throws harsh language at you."

then you say:

"Now seriously, this is worth hatemongering over though. Even ignoring the arrogance displayed, the amount of nonsense in that tiny portion of your text is already breathtaking."

"All you realy need for a healthy community is people like you shutting the fck up"

"STOP MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT."

i opened this thread for discussion about solutions for people who cannot deal with it, im trying to help others out here, i can take all your flaming comments, dont worry about that.

@frogboy if this karma system is implemented, could you rate someone lower that -1 or +1 ? and if so will there be a cap of say -5 or +5?

and also what would happen, say if someone who easily beat another player rated them +1 karma so they could beat them again easily?

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Quoting Renevent,

reply 3

Read both of your posts above my initial response to you...what I said was spot on regarding your attitude towards gaming and the people you encounter online.

Good day.

This doesn't really give an answer. You've somehow managed to take perfectly clear English and turn it into something else, which is why I asked for you to repeat it back to me *in your own words* so I'd have some clue of how you managed it.

My whole point was that certain players, a minority, ruin the game for other people by the way they play. The counter-argument for this had no substance, except to say that my response to these people ruining games was in fact an example of ruining the game. I pointed out there was an inherent contradiction to this claim, which demands clarification. Rather than give me any, there was no reply except from you, who decided to start a "I am better than you"-type argument, which I'm not interested in. I'd much rather agree or disagree, but both are impossible unless I actually know what you are talking about.

Players that do not communicate, who are still learning, are indistinguishable from griefers. I have no reason to treat them as anything else if they don't communicate. You earlier made a lazy attempt to explain the difference, leaving out completely the fact that I had clearly pointed out exactly what it is that means they are indistinguishable: the non-communication, you ignored this completely. It certainly didn't have any attention indicated in either of your replies to me.

Given that the OP has asked for this to be a better community than the atrocious DoTA one, I thought giving a reasonable explanation for my own short-comings(explanations, not excuses) might help this happen. It's a conversation that certainly isn't possible on the DoTA forum. Let's hope this thread is not a sign of things to come or this will fail quickly.

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Secret Shoppers. What? I said "Secret Shoppers". When I use to work in retail, I'd have a friend or relative come in occationally. I had a short list of questions for them to ask my employees. They'd buy some stuff, and call me later to tell me how things went. I told my employees that there would be 1 SS every other week or so (but it was actually about once a month). You'd be surprised how wonderful they'd treat every customer when they never knew which one could be a "SS".

How about some "Secret Monitors" Frogboy. People you trust to give you a heads up if someone is ruining things for the other 98% of the nice players. The Karma idea has possibilites, but I'm also affriad of -karma given to people for all the wrong reasons. If people know any other player could be a "Frogboy Agent", they might just think twice (or 3 times) before going into A-hole mode.

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umm SS..yeah. or maybe BB (big brother)?

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umm SS..yeah. or maybe BB (big brother)?

Nothing to fear from "big brother" if you're not doing anything untoward!

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2009 a space oddity

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Quoting Ron Lugge,

reply 1

Get used to idiotic trash in any internet based community in existance.

this.

also, the vast majority of players i've encountered thus far have been quite mature. especially in comparison to dota, which i played for about a week and quit due to the community.

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I honestly haven't been able to play a ton of games due to all the problems, but by and large I have had mostly positive experiences with the DG community.

Unforunately, there will always be assholes on the Internet, as annonymity breeds mean behavior, but I think DG's community pretty good.

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Quoting StAcK3D_ActR,

reply 4

@levelheaded, you say this:

"Seriously, dude. learn to chill. You cannot go haywire, in game or life, everytime someone throws harsh language at you."

then you say:

"Now seriously, this is worth hatemongering over though. Even ignoring the arrogance displayed, the amount of nonsense in that tiny portion of your text is already breathtaking."

"All you realy need for a healthy community is people like you shutting the fck up"

"STOP MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT."

Well, i didn't go haywire, and noone threw harsch language at me.

I simply hatemongered over the content of the lines i quotet.

You come here, high horse and all, and start spouting your nonsense about how the game already is infested with all sorts of trolling people that go on and on to ruin games.

"I want to leave dota for this game becaiue of the community..."

Seriously. That demigod is good game did not matter? Why not change to a chess club instead? They usualy are filled with rather un-trollish people.

But ok, you choose to sink down a leve land come over here.

"but from what i have been reading in the forums is that there are still these immature players flaming people in demigod."

You hear all sorts of things. How about, like, experiencing for a change. And what do you mean "still around"? You expected them to die or sumthin? And what immature people in the first place? Those 1-20 noone eve runs into regulary? Out of what, a 5 digit number of players?

"i shouldnt be restricted to play a game(which i payed money for) to its full content either because of a immature community, for example in WoW "oh we have enough of your class we dont need u" and the banlist system in dota "banned FOREVER for leaving 12/12/08" when i D/Ced."

High horse again. And please not that this isnt dota or wow, there are no bans here and you can always get a refund if you find us so appaling. Demigods community so far has been exemplary by internet standards so i realy do not see your problem.

Right now you come across as an attention whore. And this thread accomplishes one thing only:

Badmouth this community in its infancy. You're a bigger threat than any troll, actualy.

I know, we sould feel honored that you lowered your standards to join us here instead of staying in holydotaland but somehow youre like the black death: i'd rather avoid having you around.

Incidently, buy a t-shirt.

http://images5.cafepress.com/product/53890615v3_350x350_Front_Color-Black.jpg

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ok im sorry, let me clarify the reason for opening this thread:

if flaming occurs in a game, is there any possible solutions to stop it? what are your thoughts/solutions?

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Quoting StAcK3D_ActR,

reply 13

ok im sorry, let me clarify the reason for opening this thread:

if flaming occurs in a game, is there any possible solutions to stop it? what are your thoughts/solutions?

There is only one solution that makes sense and that has been proven 100% effective and is probably the most easily implemented solution EVER.

Here it comes:

Incidently, its also fact that this button should be STANDARD in ANY chat by now. Were not living in 1990 anymore. We have like close to 20 years of internet experience, and mute has been around since ages. Not including it is an oversight. Not including it deliberatly is madness.

^^

No ill feelings.

+1

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A mix of muting and communicating would be nice, rather than the saturation of apparent self-muting that seems to be everywhere.

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why the hell are u argueing over little tiny things

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Karma system sounds interesting, I just have to wonder how many people will actually *give* karma. I most certainly would if I enjoyed the game, but I have doubts about the goodwill of others. Not to say that we have a bad community, the community here on the website is fantastic, but the nature of competetive gaming always lends to trashtalk.

Also, I have to note the ammount of trashtalk in Pantheon and Skirmish is 0% for me, it all seems to occur from arranged teams in my experiences.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 25

The solution in my mind won't come until probably this Summer with the next phase of Impulse where people will be able to have a lot more control over the types of players they get set up with.

The problem right now is that you get matched up with people based purely on skill (in skirmish / pantheon). What is needed, IMO, are ways to rate other players in game.

Basically a karma system. A player can rate a player +1 or -1. When doing matchmaking, players with higher karma will get matched up quicker than players with lower karma. In addition, the system could look at how often someone gives out karma and take that into account as well (i.e. if someone gives a person -1 every time they lose the system could take that into account).

this doesn't sound like a good idea in my opinion. there are several instances where it can be abused that are near impossible to detect.

1) two groups play through pantheon, neither team does anything wrong except play a good game, and the winning team gives the losing team negative karma simply because they thought the game was too easy and/or want to be jerks.

2) teammates who are at least slightly less skilled at the game than you are. you try to give them friendly advice and they say something along the lines of '%$#@ u i dont need ur %$#@&^$ advice' and rate you down.

3) players who enjoy ruining games for others. win or lose they can give everyone negative karma; if the system detects a person giving all negative karma, someone will figure out how many positive karmas they have to give for the system to keep counting their votes.

i'm sure there's more i can't think of right now. there are many ways fair, mature players can be abused/penalized with a karma system. why wouldn't a simple mute and/or 'no not group with' list work? you see someone talking excessive amounts of trash for no reason, think 'hey i don't want to play with people like that', add them to your list/s and that's the end of that.

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@Levelheaded

Your posts so far in this thread have been completely unnessesary. Stacked_Actr started this thread as a general complaint about rudeness on the internet (how I read it), and specifically how Demigod can keep this rudeness at bay. Your response was immediately hostile, and directly attacked him. How is this anything -but- an example of rudeness on the internet? You claim that you see arogance in the original post, I don't. That doesn't mean it isn't there, but why did you find it necessary to point it out?

In short: personal attacks in a thread about internet rudeness... kinda misplaced. Also not very 'Levelheaded' (ohoho).

@Gorgeras

I don't think you've been misinterpereted. I disagree with you, in that I don't think you can expect every new person to be willing to communicate. I don't completely understand it, but many people are uncomfortable communicating in anyway with people they don't know online. That said I do understand, from plenty of first hand experience, how getting paired with an uncommunicative team member that suicides more than an AI can suck bad. I wouldn't say they are ruining the game however, and I would think quite little of people who put these silent n00bs on any sort of banlist. I do also think Revenant's replies were poorly worded assuming the intent was understanding.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2411

1) two groups play through pantheon, neither team does anything wrong except play a good game, and the winning team gives the losing team negative karma simply because they thought the game was too easy and/or want to be jerks.

2) teammates who are at least slightly less skilled at the game than you are. you try to give them friendly advice and they say something along the lines of '%$#@ u i dont need ur %$#@&^$ advice' and rate you down.

3) players who enjoy ruining games for others. win or lose they can give everyone negative karma; if the system detects a person giving all negative karma, someone will figure out how many positive karmas they have to give for the system to keep counting their votes.

Please re-read what I posted.

What I said:

In addition, the system could look at how often someone gives out karma and take that into account as well (i.e. if someone gives a person -1 every time they lose the system could take that into account).

+1

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 20

1) two groups play through pantheon, neither team does anything wrong except play a good game, and the winning team gives the losing team negative karma simply because they thought the game was too easy and/or want to be jerks.

2) teammates who are at least slightly less skilled at the game than you are. you try to give them friendly advice and they say something along the lines of '%$#@ u i dont need ur %$#@&^$ advice' and rate you down.

3) players who enjoy ruining games for others. win or lose they can give everyone negative karma; if the system detects a person giving all negative karma, someone will figure out how many positive karmas they have to give for the system to keep counting their votes.

Please re-read what I posted.

What I said:

In addition, the system could look at how often someone gives out karma and take that into account as well (i.e. if someone gives a person -1 every time they lose the system could take that into account).

lol frog u out smarted him before he even wrote a reply lol

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Replays would be the best way too. I've seen people post Sins replays, which of course include the chat log of the "offender". At least it's "proof" rather than hear-say of two people that might have just got into a squabble.

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Quoting si1foo,

reply 16

why the hell are u argueing over little tiny things

Yours might be. Mine isn't.

EDIT: in practically every game I've played, very few people have been reluctant to type 'sry' in chat when they balls something up. Those that keep *ruining*(yes that is what they are doing) games and not saying anything about it are often banned by server admins.

No, the phenomenom of silence is something that occurs only in a set-up where there is no chance of any repercussion, hence uncommunicative 'noobs' are indistinguishable from uncommunicative griefers. They bring it on themselves.

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Quoting Gorgeras,

reply 23

Quoting si1foo, reply 16why the hell are u argueing over little tiny things

Yours might be. Mine isn't.

EDIT: in practically every game I've played, very few people have been reluctant to type 'sry' in chat when they balls something up. Those that keep *ruining*(yes that is what they are doing) games and not saying anything about it are often banned by server admins.

No, the phenomenom of silence is something that occurs only in a set-up where there is no chance of any repercussion, hence uncommunicative 'noobs' are indistinguishable from uncommunicative griefers. They bring it on themselves.

there are just some things that really annouy me like favor items they shouldn't be allowed below lvl 5 come on i sawa a sedna with 3k at start i was like wtf it took my hole team to kill her

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