LORD-ORION

Join Date 04/2009

+55

Ideas for Staff of the Warmage

I know I have brought this up before,

But staff of the warmage is an enigma...

As it is now, it is easily one of the worst favor items in the game

But it has certain problems if you intend to mod it.

1) If you take it you are replacing a helm, so why take it when you have Plenor and Vlemish available.
2) If you allow it to be as good as a mid-game helm, the early game gets weird (and unfair) for certain DGs (LE, Sedna, QoT)

So some questions which will hopefully spawn some ideas.

1) If this item scaled in power as the game progressed, to always be slightly better then a helm you can buy, would that be fair and viable?

eg: When the game starts, it's a bit better then scaled helm.
As the game progresses, it eventually is a better value then Plenor
Near the end game, it rivals Hungarlings.

2) Any ideas / tricks that can be used to implement this idea?

3) Any other ideas what to do with this item without encroaching on other mana item domains?

Thanks

demigod

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It's not as awful as one may think, though very situational. I've seen ppapanek play a viable SotW Erb build (heavily Mist-based), for example: http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=181813

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why not make it like blood but for mana. Instead of it giving a damage bonus have it give manna/sec instead.

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

giving it mps would help, but wouldn't fix it completely. You can't use abilities when you're dead.

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Because many helms already % mana per second, there's no clear way to buff the item so that its power increases as you get better helms / base mana regen.

The closest you'll come is giving it a cost reduction like Hungarling's. Since the two stack additively, -0.25 on the staff plus -0.25 on the helm would cut all ability cost in half once you got the crown, which is def. too powerful.

--incorrect info removed--

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I only gave the buff calculation for SpellCost a cursory look, and was wrong about how it works.

Code: c++
        local spellCostMult = 1 + (unit.Sync.SpellCostMult or 0)
        unit:UseEnergy(def.EnergyCost * spellCostMult)

So, inexplicably, the base value for SpellCostMult is 0, and 1 is added to it in HandleAbility where the cost is deducted. Great job, GPG.

So you can't use a mult, because 1-0.2 * 0 is still 0. So go with a -0.15 add.

Otherwise, if you wanna get fancy, you can do a -0.25 add and a -0.2 mult, which would result in -20% cost from the Staff, and an additional -20% with Hungarling's for -40% with both. So it would keep the Staff alone very effective, while keeping the absolute effectiveness of the Staff + Hungarling's from being too great. Hungarling's relative effectiveness would still be exactly the same: -25% of the amount with the staff (0.2 absolute reduction / 0.8 existing cost = 0.25 relative reduction).

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Yeah I think you're right...

A mana cost decrease effect without some sort of +mana bonus is a good thing to try.

That actually might give it a niche as the sedna / QoT minion build item.

What actual % decrease to give it will be the next question I guess.

I am guessing I can find a number that is right to make this item only more effective for high mana costing skills. If you have an efficient costing skill, you are better off going blood and 2 helms. etc... (looks over at the calculus books -It has been too long my old friends )

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Well, look at the numbers I gave: -0.25 add + -0.2 mult. This gives it a one-fifth cost reduction, which is pretty significant if it also has a little mana/second or a max mana bonus. This also keeps it from synergizing too well with Hungarling's, which is a concern if you do more than -0.2 with no reductive mult.

Alternatively, if you think that's not enough, try -0.3125 add with the same -0.2 mult, for -25% cost initially, with Hungarling's adding another -27% relative for -45% total. Either way, it's gonna need some mana per second if you want it to replace/scale up as a helm.

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Yeah I think the .3125 is more appropriate for the 25% boost

Vlemish + Plenor + Unbreakable = 3350 mana + decent regen

Warmage + Plenor + Unreakable = 3875 effective mana + lower regen

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Early mana cost reduction and brain storm does not mix.

Occ can sit in his lane for quite awhile with the item set this way.

So it's a no go.

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